Rebid? --, AKQ9xxx, xx, Axxxx

[pclayton]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=shakq9xxdxxca6xxx]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

MPs, you deal and open 1♥. Pard bids 1♠ (the opponents are silent). Your rebid?

[hrothgar]

I'm torn between a 3♣ and a 3♥ rebid. For that matter, partner's 1♠ advance makes me think that 2♣ might work out best.

 

I wish that the club suit was a bit better (hence the fact that I am flirting with 3♥). I suspect that I'd bid 3♣ at the table. However, it will be interesting to see what other folks have to say.

[zasanya]

2♥ to show 6 card suit and later go on bidding ♣.If P cannot find a rebid opponents will and I can go on bidding ♣. :(

[cnszsun]

If Gazzilli is played, you can bid 3♣ or 3♥ to show 14-16 pts, two suited or one suited. Otherwise, 2♣ is my choice.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would probably bid 3C (my vote),

but I was thinking about 2C.

 

Since I wanna play game (4H),

I think 3C is ok.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mikeh]

2♣

 

No other bid makes sense. I'd maybe bid 3♣ in a big club method, where the jumpshift merely shows a good non 1♣ opener, but in a standard method, anything but 2♣ seems completely misguided.

 

Yes, I have a good hand, but the alternatives are:

 

3♣: game force. Whatever partner has, he will go wrong. The better his hand, the worse our result will be, unless he has a fit. And if he has a fit, we don't need to jumpshift: he won't pass 2♣

 

3♥: ok on playing strength in hearts, but otherwise a complete lie. Imagine Axxxx x Axx KQxx opposite: try to find ♣ now.

 

2♥: giving up entirely

 

It is 100-1 that 2♣ will not end the auction, and I can start to show my extra playing strength later. If 2♣ does end the auction, we haven't missed game yet :( KQxxx void Jxxxx xxx

[Walddk]

2♣ (whether I play Gazzilli or not).

 

Roland

[Finch]

2♣

 

No other bid makes sense. I'd maybe bid 3♣ in a big club method, where the jumpshift merely shows a good non 1♣ opener, but in a standard method, anything but 2♣ seems completely misguided.

What he said.

[Echognome]

2♣

 

No other bid makes sense. I'd maybe bid 3♣ in a big club method, where the jumpshift merely shows a good non 1♣ opener, but in a standard method, anything but 2♣ seems completely misguided.

 

Yes, I have a good hand, but the alternatives are:

 

3♣: game force. Whatever partner has, he will go wrong. The better his hand, the worse our result will be, unless he has a fit. And if he has a fit, we don't need to jumpshift: he won't pass 2♣

 

3♥: ok on playing strength in hearts, but otherwise a complete lie. Imagine Axxxx x Axx KQxx opposite: try to find ♣ now.

 

2♥: giving up entirely

 

It is 100-1 that 2♣ will not end the auction, and I can start to show my extra playing strength later. If 2♣ does end the auction, we haven't missed game yet :( KQxxx void Jxxxx xxx

I agree this makes sense, but it brings another question to my mind. I wasn't at the table, nor knew responder's hand, but I am wondering if responder should make a "courtesy raise" with any hand with 4 clubs.

 

For example, should responder with 3♣ with any of the following hands:

 

♠KJTx ♥x ♦xxxx ♣Kxxx

 

♠QJTxx ♥xx ♦Kx ♣QTxx

 

♠Axxxx ♥--- ♦xxxx ♣Kxxx

 

etc.

 

How much should responder just be thankful that he improved the contract? If 3♣ is just a "courtesy" raise, how does responder make a more constructive raise? (Of course if responder had bid 1NT, an "impossible" 2♠ can be used for that purpose.)

[Finch]

The third of your examples is a fairly powerful hand and is a clear raise.

 

What we tend to do on hands such as the second one, if we don't want to show enthusasiam by raising clubs, is to give preference to 2H just in case partner wants to bid again (he might have a good 3514 for example). Particularly at matchpoints when 2H might score as well as 3C anyway.

 

I will probably miss 4H opposite the first hand (5C needs clubs 2-2 so not a disaster not bidding it).

[willow23]

Hmmm..

 

This hand brings out my impulsive side.. :( .

 

Whatever I bid, I want it to be forcing.. so that rules out a 2♥ rebid...so may would go with a mild 2♣ on an off day .. but I prefer a crazy 3♣ or 3♥ rebid... with the silence ..P promises to have values..:)..I want to be in game for sure.

[HeartA]

2C/3C over pd's 1S (I voted for 3C), prepare to bid hearts again.

[Dwingo]

I voted for 2♣. Partner will strive to keep the bidding open. It is not the same with 2♥.

 

In any case, depending on how you value your hand, 2♣ and 3♣ are better choices than 2♥ or 3♥, simply because you show 9-10 cards of total 13 compared to only 6 with 2♥ or 3♥.

[kenberg]

I bid 2C. Quite likely partner will rebid his spades or maybe 2NT. In either case I will then bid 3H. Over a 2S bid at least it seems 3H is not forcing. A good hand, hoping for a raise, two suits, not forcing. That looks like what I have.

[pclayton]

Thanks all - great comments this morning :(

 

This was my pard's hand who rebid 3♣. I held: Kxxxxx, xx, AKT, Kx. I rebid 3♠ and launched KC after pard rebid 4♥. Since its MP's, I placed it in 6N instead of 6♥.

 

6N is awful, but I actually brought it home against the weakest pair in the room: ♦2 lead to 10 (!), ♥ to board, club to 7 (ducked) and a ♦ return. Clubs were 3-3. A crazy 1440.

 

6♥ really isn't great; you need 3-3 clubs (or I suppose 4-2 with 2 ♥'s on your left; although a trump lead wins)

 

Joe Kivel told me about the auction he and his wife had:

 

1♥ - 1♠

2♣ - 2♦

3♥ - 4♥

5♣ - 6♥

 

Which is agressive but reasonable.

 

2♣ is a reasonable rebid, but its MP's and if pard does have the hand where he passes 2♣ you are booked for a zero. I think I like 3♥ (4 is tooo much) and pull 3N to 4♣. Isn't that a nice description?

[mike777]

Yes, 2clubs, no to courtesy raises. This hand could be trouble .....if the opp do not balance and we have some 18-19 hcp slam.

[neilkaz]

2♣

 

No other bid makes sense. I'd maybe bid 3♣ in a big club method, where the jumpshift merely shows a good non 1♣ opener, but in a standard method, anything but 2♣ seems completely misguided.

 

Yes, I have a good hand, but the alternatives are:

 

3♣: game force. Whatever partner has, he will go wrong. The better his hand, the worse our result will be, unless he has a fit. And if he has a fit, we don't need to jumpshift: he won't pass 2♣

 

3♥: ok on playing strength in hearts, but otherwise a complete lie. Imagine Axxxx x Axx KQxx opposite: try to find ♣ now.

 

2♥: giving up entirely

 

It is 100-1 that 2♣ will not end the auction, and I can start to show my extra playing strength later. If 2♣ does end the auction, we haven't missed game yet :( KQxxx void Jxxxx xxx

I am in complete agreement with 2♣ and your fine discusion.

[Walddk]

2♣ is a reasonable rebid, but its MP's and if pard does have the hand where he passes 2♣ you are booked for a zero. I think I like 3♥ (4 is tooo much) and pull 3N to 4♣. Isn't that a nice description?

I don't think so. We have 11 cards in two suits (6-5), so why I would give partner the impression that I have a one-suiter by rebidding hearts I can't understand. It must be better to show 9+ cards in two suits rather than 6 cards in one.

 

This is a two-suiter. The idea is to bid the longer suit followed by the shorter unless partner supports hearts on his first turn.

 

And when does partner pass 2♣? When we are unlikely to have a game on, because only with 1-3 in hearts and clubs and a very weak hand will he pass 2♣. Every time he has 2 hearts, he will give preference, and every time he has 4 clubs he will support ("courtesy" if you prefer).

 

Roland

[1eyedjack]

I think that 2C is going to get you to the best spot more often than 3C, on those hands where partner would rebid over 2C.

I think that 3C is going to get you to the best spot more often than 2C, on those hands were partner would pass over 2C.

I do not think that the disparity is equal and opposite.

Nor do I think that the frequency of his passing 2C will be equal to the frequency of his bidding over it.

I voted for 2C in the end, but I would not hang partner for bidding 3C. I don't like any other alternatives.

[mike777]

IF you guys play courtesy raises what do you do with real invites that cannot bid 2nt?

 

1h=1s

2c=3c!?

[awm]

These kinds of hands tend to be tough to bid in 2/1. Basically the issue is that bidding 2♣ could easily miss a game (no I don't expect partner to raise with Kxxx x xxxx KJxx but game is quite good in spite of the wasted spade king). On the other hand, bidding 3♥ will often miss the same games, as well as occasionally going down embarrassingly in the wrong partial. Bidding 3♣ gets you to game (and usually I won't mind being in one or the other round suit game on this hand) but carries the risk of pushing you to a bad slam. I'd personally go with 3♣ and hope that I can dissuade partner from slam if the hand is misfitty (I think the hand where partner passes 2♣ and we have a game is more likely than the hand where I can't stop partner from bidding slam after the 3♣ rebid) but this will depend on various things like how often your partner takes a "false preference" with 4+♣ and 2♥, and how good a card holder your partner typically is.

 

Elianna and I would rebid 2NT (gazilli, showing 6♥ and 4+minor and about 14-16), which more or less solves the problem. With most of my strong club partners I would rebid 3♣ showing 6♥, 5♣, and about 12-14 high. Of course, none of this helps when you're playing straight 2/1.

[cherdano]

2♣

 

No other bid makes sense. I'd maybe bid 3♣ in a big club method, where the jumpshift merely shows a good non 1♣ opener, but in a standard method, anything but 2♣ seems completely misguided.

 

Yes, I have a good hand, but the alternatives are:

 

3♣: game force. Whatever partner has, he will go wrong. The better his hand, the worse our result will be, unless he has a fit. And if he has a fit, we don't need to jumpshift: he won't pass 2♣

 

3♥: ok on playing strength in hearts, but otherwise a complete lie. Imagine Axxxx x Axx KQxx opposite: try to find ♣ now.

 

2♥: giving up entirely

 

It is 100-1 that 2♣ will not end the auction, and I can start to show my extra playing strength later. If 2♣ does end the auction, we haven't missed game yet :P  KQxxx void Jxxxx xxx

I agree this makes sense, but it brings another question to my mind. I wasn't at the table, nor knew responder's hand, but I am wondering if responder should make a "courtesy raise" with any hand with 4 clubs.

 

For example, should responder with 3♣ with any of the following hands:

 

♠KJTx ♥x ♦xxxx ♣Kxxx

 

♠QJTxx ♥xx ♦Kx ♣QTxx

 

♠Axxxx ♥--- ♦xxxx ♣Kxxx

 

etc.

 

How much should responder just be thankful that he improved the contract? If 3♣ is just a "courtesy" raise, how does responder make a more constructive raise? (Of course if responder had bid 1NT, an "impossible" 2♠ can be used for that purpose.)

Except for the 3rd hand, I think you just can't afford to raise to 3♣ in standard 2/1 (with a forcing or almost forcing 1N), as partner is quite likely to have a balanced minimum hand with 3 clubs only.

 

When 2♣ promises 4, it's a different story, but that's usually not the case even for partnerships who play a semi-forcing 1N.

 

Arend

[Echognome]

Except for the 3rd hand, I think you just can't afford to raise to 3♣ in standard 2/1 (with a forcing or almost forcing 1N), as partner is quite likely to have a balanced minimum hand with 3 clubs only.

 

When 2♣ promises 4, it's a different story, but that's usually not the case even for partnerships who play a semi-forcing 1N.

 

Arend

Surely partner bids 1NT with a balanced minimum and 3 clubs?

[paulg]

As it came up in the BIL tonight, the question of what you open with ♠xx ♥AQxxx ♦AQx ♣Kxx is relevant to the appeal of rebidding 2♣.

 

Paul

[pclayton]

2♣ is a reasonable rebid, but its MP's and if pard does have the hand where he passes 2♣ you are booked for a zero. I think I like 3♥ (4 is tooo much) and pull 3N to 4♣. Isn't that a nice description?

I don't think so. We have 11 cards in two suits (6-5), so why I would give partner the impression that I have a one-suiter by rebidding hearts I can't understand. It must be better to show 9+ cards in two suits rather than 6 cards in one.

 

This is a two-suiter. The idea is to bid the longer suit followed by the shorter unless partner supports hearts on his first turn.

 

And when does partner pass 2♣? When we are unlikely to have a game on, because only with 1-3 in hearts and clubs and a very weak hand will he pass 2♣. Every time he has 2 hearts, he will give preference, and every time he has 4 clubs he will support ("courtesy" if you prefer).

 

Roland

Roland - I think this is a bigger risk than you make it out to be. At MPs, I'm not that worried about missing game, but I really want to play in the right partial. And it is the presence of the club fit that makes hearts a more viable spot.

 

Something like: Qxxx, x, xxxx, Kxxx for instance will pass 2♣ (and breathe a sigh of relief) whereby hearts is making anywhere from 140 to 200 on completely normal splits. Clubs will score 130 to 150 on those same splits.

 

Will you partner take a call over 2♣ with: KJxx, x, Qxxxx, Kxx? Its close and I wouldn't blame pard for passing.

 

At IMPs, I think 2♣ is far better.