Bid this after a Bergen raise

[Wackojack]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=sq1083hak5d10972ck10]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

My partner and I were trying to play BBO Adv in its entirity. I am new to Bergen, and I would like to through my thoughts in the auction as it unfolded and invite anyone to who knows better to tell me.

 

1. Partner opens 1♠. I respond 3♣ showing 10-12 and 4 card support.

2. Partner rebids 3♦. I take this a a game force control bid showing some slam interest. i.e. If I have the right cards, slam is on. With a minimum opening partner would have bid 3♥ and with a stronger hand with no slam interest partner would have bid 4♥. I therefore cooperate and cue 3♥.

3. Partner bids 4♣. This must be the Ace. Now I think I went wrong. I should have continued cue bidding 4♥, showing I had the ace and king. Then if partner next bids 4♠, I would RKB 4NT. This might enable us to get to the grand should it be there. Instead I lost patience and took control, and bid a direct 4NT because I thought that the small slam was a formality and if we held all 5 key cards I could bid 5NT and find out if partner has K♦ for the grand.

4. Partner responds 5♥ showing 2 key cards, missing the Queen. Now, in the words of 1 regular poster, I had a brain fart and I bid 6♠. For my punishment I must write out 1000 times "I must not bid slam missing 2 key cards.

 

btw.

1. I would expect partner holding ♠AKxxxx and 2 key cards to bid 5♠

2. I cannot construct any 12 point hand opposite a 2 key card hand that can justify partner's slam interest, consistent with his cue bidding.

[whereagles]

You shouldn't take control because pard has more hcp than you. If you tell him what you have, he'll be better positioned to evaluate where the hands belong. Thus, yeah, 4♥ over 4♣ is better.

 

But then again, some pards cue for just cueing's stake. With a random pard I would be weary to assume he has good extras for his 3♦ + 4♣ cues... he should, but that doesn't mean he will have them.

[paulg]

Personally I think this hand is too good for Bergen and would have bid a Jacoby 2NT to create a game force.

 

However, having bid 3♣, I would have taken 3♦ as a game try rather than a slam try. I clearly plan to accept this but would cue bid 3♥ on the way in case partner is slam oriented.

 

In the end this probably leads to a similar auction and decisions.

 

Paul

[inquiry]

Personally I think this hand is too good for Bergen and would have bid a Jacoby 2NT to create a game force.

100% agree.. this is too strong for bergen. I try to avoid playing bergen raises so I probablly have this backwards....but is the stronger raise 3D in normal bergen and the weaker one 3C so this bid is reverse bergen, or do i have that backwards?

[Wackojack]

I thought it was important to stick to exactly what BBO Advanced says and not to creatively interpret it. This says in the FD file 10-12 pts, 4 spades. I understand this to be reverse Bergen. Admittedly it is worth a game force, but I don't see anything to suggest that Bergen can't be used on a game forcing hand.

 

Crucial to further discussion is what the opener's rebid of 3d is showing. Is it still a game try or is it a mild slam try. I posted this question a few months ago and find it very frustrating that there is nothing written on the continuations.

 

http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...14639&hl=Bergen

 

fwiiw I think that using it for a game try is foolish. Surely little is to be gained from using that extra space gained over the old fashioned 1s-3s sequence? All you do in marginal game situations is make it easier for the defence to make the killing opening lead.

 

I notice Bergen on profiles of so many BBO players. Do they agree on the follow up bids before playing? I bet they don't. This seems to me to be a recipe for bidding cock-ups. So please could we see the consensus continuations to Bergen in the files?

[inquiry]

No matter if 3C or 3D is the stronger bid, 3D over 3C is AT LEAST A GAME TRY, or can be stronger and is a slam try. This has three important implications.

 

First. With game going hand and no slam interest, just bid the game rather than 3D.

 

Second, the range on 3C should be wider and the range on 3D should be narrower. Why? Say... 1H-3D-opener has to decide, game or not game. If this is a three point range, that is too much. So make 3D either 11-12 pts or 8-9 points. That leaves 3C as 8-10 or so, or 10-12. Note, I said points not HCP. This way, the invite makes sense (smaller range, less room).

 

Third, after 1H-3C-3D-4H if you had the slam hand, you must make a move (presumably you had slam interest opposite a max), and on 1H-3C-3D-.... (3S, 3NT, 4C, 4D), you must bid 4H if 3D was only a game try. Thus, 1H-3C-3D-3H-4H was slam try hand (else you would have bid 4H over 3C.

[HeartA]

Personally I think this hand is too good for Bergen and would have bid a Jacoby 2NT to create a game force.

100% agree.. this is too strong for bergen. I try to avoid playing bergen raises so I probablly have this backwards....but is the stronger raise 3D in normal bergen and the weaker one 3C so this bid is reverse bergen, or do i have that backwards?

Me, three.