Play 4S

[pclayton]

You are in 4♥ against top-class competition (Justin and Josh). Josh opens 1N (15-17) in 3rd chair and you decide to round up a 3.5 heart call to 4♥.

 

The opening lead is the Q♦.:

 

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=sqj54ht84d982ck84&s=s87hkq97532daca73]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Plan the play.

 

Here's a riddle: if this hand were in "Right through the Pack", what would be the name of the entry?

[inquiry]

I place ♦QJ with justin. That leaves 18 unaccounted for points. Just enough room for justin to have three more, lets hope it is the Spade King. There is a danger that if you pull trumps, they will switch to a club, and then, after you try to knock out the two top spades, they continue clubs each time, and you lose 1C, 2S and the heart ace.

 

So.... I play a spade at trick two... with a concept of setting up the spade Q before I ever touch a trump. Hearts will need to be 2-1 also, simply because of the lack of entries to dummy, i am not planning on first round heart hook.

 

I am not good at riddles... i would name it the club king. :-)

[pclayton]

I place ♦QJ with justin. That leaves 18 unaccounted for points. Just enough room for justin to have three more, lets hope it is the Spade King. There is a danger that if you pull trumps, they will switch to a club, and then, after you try to knock out the two top spades, they continue clubs each time, and you lose 1C, 2S and the heart ace.

 

So.... I play a spade at trick two... with a concept of setting up the spade Q before I ever touch a trump. Hearts will need to be 2-1 also, simply because of the lack of entries to dummy, i am not planning on first round heart hook.

 

I am not good at riddles... i would name it the club king. :-)

Another hint: if you play the K♥ at T2; LHO will follow with the J. I realize its not best, but the opps will continue ♦'s after the A♥.

 

I didn't do this btw.

[HeartA]

I would play spade toward dummy at trick 2, to set up a spade discard for clubs.

[pclayton]

What if I told you you could peek into Josh's hand and see the ♠AK......which is he MARKED with: 40 - (13 + 6) - (15-17) = 4-6 in LHO less 4 (already seen - with the ♥J) = zero to 2 points.

 

C'mon people!

[inquiry]

What if I told you you could peek into Josh's hand and see the ♠AK......which is he MARKED with: 40 - (13 + 6) - (15-17) = 4-6 in LHO less 4 (already seen - with the ♥J) = zero to 2 points.

 

C'mon people!

So you are suggesting that the first three tricks was

 

DA wins

Heart King to ACE (lho plays the heart jack)

Diamond ruff (saving a low heart)?

 

This is an inferior line of course. Why? Because they could have switched to a club. At the table, I would still start spade at trick 2, and thus would not play this way. But after this start (see my earlier post), there was just enough room for LHO to have a king. If he has the heart JACK, then yes, AK of spade with EAST. Tou have two heart entries and one club entry to dummy. You need to catch EAST with AKx or AK tight, or, AK without the ten and put him under some pressure.

 

With three entries, you have just enough to waste one.

 

Trick four, heart to TEN (keeping low heart for second entry), and low spade from dummy. The plan is see if you can entice RHO to jump up with the A from AKxx. If he has AK or AKx he has no escape. If he wins A or K you are home. If some low spade wins this trick, you have to rely on triple AK.

[pclayton]

What if I told you you could peek into Josh's hand and see the ♠AK......which is he MARKED with: 40 - (13 + 6) - (15-17) = 4-6 in LHO less 4 (already seen - with the ♥J) = zero to 2 points.

 

C'mon people!

So you are suggesting that the first three tricks was

 

DA wins

Heart King to ACE (lho plays the heart jack)

Diamond ruff (saving a low heart)?

 

This is an inferior line of course. Why? Because they could have switched to a club. At the table, I would still start spade at trick 2, and thus would not play this way. But after this start (see my earlier post), there was just enough room for LHO to have a king. If he has the heart JACK, then yes, AK of spade with EAST. Tou have two heart entries and one club entry to dummy. You need to catch EAST with AKx or AK tight, or, AK without the ten and put him under some pressure.

 

With three entries, you have just enough to waste one.

 

Trick four, heart to TEN (keeping low heart for second entry), and low spade from dummy. The plan is see if you can entice RHO to jump up with the A from AKxx. If he has AK or AKx he has no escape. If he wins A or K you are home. If some low spade wins this trick, you have to rely on triple AK.

I didnt't say K♥ at T2 is best (I played a spade myself). I merely added it as a hint for the hand.

 

At the table I played:

 

1. A♦

2. ♠7 to Q (LHO played the 10 (udca))

3. Low ♦, ruffed

4. K♥ to A (J falls on left)

5. ♥exit......

 

Proceed.

[ArcLight]

(heart 10 or 8) "(Ate)Eat your Heart out" "Harten me" "

 

I'd like to end play RHO (Josh).

 

But even if hearts are 2-1 I cant eliminate dimes (unless they help!)

 

If we play the trump K and they do help us by playing a dime, we still need RHO to have just 2 Clubs, because with a 3rd they will have 4 winners.

That means RHO has 9 cards in ♠ and ♦.

 

Ruff the 2nd Dime.

Pull trumps (they were 2-1)

Club to K in Dummy and ruff last Dime.

 

Cash Ace of Clubs

Spade to Q endplaying RHO.

 

If RHO gives a ruff and discard the entry is the heart 10.

(Naturally we saved a low heart.)

Actually, if the Ace and Jack fall on trick one, both the 10 and 8 are entries.

 

 

An alternative line is to run the Spade 8, hoping Justin has both the 9 and 10 and doesn't cover. I think the first line is more likely.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

After Seeing Phils additional post

 

1. A♦

2. ♠7 to Q (LHO played the 10 (udca))

3. Low ♦, ruffed

4. K♥ to A (J falls on left)

5. ♥exit......

 

 

I am thinking to ruff out the other Spade honor.

The Spade 10 = Odd # of Spades, hope it 5.

Lead a spade and duck, letting RHOs other honor beat air.

 

Now use your heart 8 or 10 as an entry.

 

If RHO does have 3 - duck any way, you have 2 heart entries = the 8 and 10 and can enter once pulliong trump, ruff a spade, then enter again for teh Club discard

[pclayton]

(heart 10 or 8) "(Ate)Eat your Heart out" "Harten me" "

 

I'd like to end play RHO (Josh).

 

But even if hearts are 2-1 I cant eliminate dimes (unless they help!)

 

If we play the trump K and they do help us by playing a dime, we still need RHO to have just 2 Clubs, because with a 3rd they will have 4 winners.

That means RHO has 9 cards in ♠ and ♦.

 

Ruff the 2nd Dime.

Pull trumps (they were 2-1)

Club to K in Dummy and ruff last Dime.

 

Cash Ace of Clubs

Spade to Q endplaying RHO.

 

If RHO gives a ruff and discard the entry is the heart 10.

(Naturally we saved a low heart.)

Actually, if the Ace and Jack fall on trick one, both the 10 and 8 are entries.

 

 

An alternative line is to run the Spade 8, hoping Justin has both the 9 and 10 and doesn't cover. I think the first line is more likely.

OK you are pressing me for more hints.

 

Josh returns the ♦2; indicating an original holding of ♦Kxxx.

 

Arclight's getting warmer......

[ArcLight]

Phil,

I edited my original post at the bottom> How is that?

 

RHO has 4 Dimes, 3 spades, 2 hearts, 4 Clubs.

 

So you can ruff out the Spade honor.

 

Entries to Dummy are: Club K and both hearts

[pclayton]

Phil,

I edited my original post at the bottom> How is that?

 

RHO has 4 Dimes, 3 spades, 2 hearts, 4 Clubs.

 

So you can ruff out the Spade honor.

 

Entries to Dummy are: Club K and both hearts

At the table, I played for AKx on my right, which is superficially is the best line if you know the ♠AK are on my right.

 

The solution isn't that hard to spot; if you TRUST your opponent's carding here, although it has a DD feel.

 

No more hints.....

[inquiry]

1. A♦

2. ♠7 to Q (LHO played the 10 (udca))

3. Low ♦, ruffed

4. K♥ to A (J falls on left)

5. ♥exit......

 

Proceed.

Ok.. we KNOW spade up is not going to win, and we win the heart in out in dummy.... The position is something like this now...

 

[hv=n=sj54htd9ck84&w=s(xx)hdjt2cj95&e=sk(xx)hdk(xx)cqt6&s=s7hk973dca73]399|300|Their exact distributions are uncertain. I assume WEST has club Queen or club Jack as with QJT a club might come out and beside, if RHO had both he would have 18 hcp, one too many.... [/hv]

 

One can eliminate a possible C-S squeeze against EAST. that requires he hold 4S and five clubs. That would give LHO 7 good diamonds, justin would have preempted with that.

 

So the two lines are to play justin for spade T96 or to play East for AK or AK(x). Of course if justin is telling the truth with the spade TEN, then EAST can not have three spades so your only real chance is that justin hold T96 tripleton of spades. But bless his sole, justin has been known to "falsecard".

 

The chance for T96 is not great (one combination of three spades, while if EAST has AKx he can hold AK2, AK3, AK4, AK6, AK9 not to mention AK doubleton. Fortunately you can cater to both cases an worry RHO slightly (not much due to the spade TEN play however). Win the spade in dummy and play low spade. If RHO has AKx you are home if you guess correctly. If LHO has SPADE T96 you have to guess to exit spade JACK next.

 

But this is the same line I gave earlier but with the added value of the spade ten play.

[ArcLight]

>The solution isn't that hard to spot; if you TRUST your opponent's carding here, although it has a DD feel.

 

 

TRUST Justins carding? Mr. tricky himself!!! I wouldn't trust him if I saw the card in his hand.

 

 

After some more thought - Justin was covering the Spade lead to Dummy. Of course he will play the 10 or 9.

 

I think it doesnt matter, provided RHO has 2-3 Spades.

With more you can't ruff out the honor.

With 5 Spades to the AK and 2 hearts, I think RHO might open 1 Spade, not 1NT.

 

Ruff out Josh's honor on the 3rd round.

[pclayton]

1. A♦

2. ♠7 to Q (LHO played the 10 (udca))

3. Low ♦, ruffed

4. K♥ to A (J falls on left)

5. ♥exit......

 

Proceed.

Ok.. we KNOW spade up is not going to win, and we win the heart in out in dummy.... The position is something like this now...

 

[hv=n=sj54htd9ck84&w=s(xx)hdjt2cj95&e=sk(xx)hdk(xx)cqt6&s=s7hk973dca73]399|300|Their exact distributions are uncertain. I assume WEST has club Queen or club Jack as with QJT a club might come out and beside, if RHO had both he would have 18 hcp, one too many.... [/hv]

 

One can eliminate a possible C-S squeeze against EAST. that requires he hold 4S and five clubs. That would give LHO 7 good diamonds, justin would have preempted with that.

 

So the two lines are to play justin for spade T96 or to play East for AK or AK(x). Of course if justin is telling the truth with the spade TEN, then EAST can not have three spades so your only real chance is that justin hold T96 tripleton of spades. But bless his sole, justin has been known to "falsecard".

 

The chance for T96 is not great (one combination of three spades, while if EAST has AKx he can hold AK2, AK3, AK4, AK6, AK9 not to mention AK doubleton. Fortunately you can cater to both cases an worry RHO slightly (not much due to the spade TEN play however). Win the spade in dummy and play low spade. If RHO has AKx you are home if you guess correctly. If LHO has SPADE T96 you have to guess to exit spade JACK next.

 

But this is the same line I gave earlier but with the added value of the spade ten play.

The answer is right there.

 

[hv=n=sqj54&w=s1092&e=sak63&s=s87]399|300|[/hv]

 

If you assume Justin has 10-9-2 or 10-9-3 of spades you can still make the hand. Its really a beautiful card combo and I've never seen it before.

 

1. Start with the ♠8 or ♠7; there are many issues here whether or not you want to induce a cover. Say LHO covers (as he did). RHO wins the Q with the K.

 

2. Play the other spade. LHO MUST cover now, and the J loses to the A.

 

3. Enter dummy and take a ruffing finesse. The 5-4 are equals against the 6-3.

 

I think this is indicated, since its 2:1 that RHO holds the 6. Furthermore, you lose nothing by trying to ruff out AKx (in case our 20 y.o. IS falsecarding with 10-9-7-6.

 

Cool huh?

[Guest Jlall]

Why can't I just have T96x? There was no count given on this hand, I was worried you had the 87(x) and you had the high cards pinned. I was unclear how many high cards anyone had on this hand, but I thought it was likely you knew I couldn't have any. The fact that you led the 7 made it seem more likely to me that you were going to pass it (if you wanted me to cover you'd lead the 8). I would NEVER give count with T9x as in a normal situation you may have 876 and later figure out the suit. It would typically be a horrible play to ever play the ten or the nine for that reason, but I thought that maybe you had figured out the suit from the bidding so I opted to cover. When one errs in these type of situations I think its better to err on the covering side than the not covering side. As it turns out from your point of view there was room for me to have the SK so I should not have covered, but I really had no way of knowing. I don't see how I can be giving count when all I have done is cover twice...

[inquiry]

Why can't I just have T96x?

Because Phil has you identified as a fish.... who gives count all the time. :-)

 

At least I was willing not to believe it was count...

[pclayton]

Why can't I just have T96x? There was no count given on this hand, I was worried you had the 87(x) and you had the high cards pinned. I was unclear how many high cards anyone had on this hand, but I thought it was likely you knew I couldn't have any. The fact that you led the 7 made it seem more likely to me that you were going to pass it (if you wanted me to cover you'd lead the 8). I would NEVER give count with T9x as in a normal situation you may have 876 and later figure out the suit. It would typically be a horrible play to ever play the ten or the nine for that reason, but I thought that maybe you had figured out the suit from the bidding so I opted to cover. When one errs in these type of situations I think its better to err on the covering side than the not covering side. As it turns out from your point of view there was room for me to have the SK so I should not have covered, but I really had no way of knowing. I don't see how I can be giving count when all I have done is cover twice...

There's a lot to consider from your standpoint. And I do mean - a LOT. Like many interesting card combos, there is a lot of things to think about by all players.

 

What can you as my LHO determine about the hand? You know my trumps aren't solid, otherwise I draw them immediately. You also know that Josh has the K♦, but you are unsure about the length. Why am I playing the spade? Either I need an entry to hook Josh's (presumed) ♥K or I need to establish a spade trick before my club stop is knocked out.

 

I thought there might be a situation where your giving count would matter; but I can't develop one. As long as I have a 7 card heart suit, I can always get back to dummy to cash a spade later. And I can't think of a case where Josh needs to know the spade count to cut me off from the board. Nevertheless, its early in the hand and its hard for you to determine whether or not count is necessary.

 

If I have 8-7-6 of spades, why am I starting them right away? And more importantly, if your view is that I'm going to run the ♠7, then there's not much you can do about it. And I appreciate the idea that you thought I could take a double chinese finesse with say 8-7-x LOL.

 

Taking the spade into isolation; if you think I'm playing the Q (and not running the 7), you shouldn't cover; otherwise it leads me to into the winning position that I would not have been entitled to. On the 2nd round you covered the 8 and I could have taken the ruffing finesse as described.

 

At the time, I hadn't considered AK6x in Josh hand; I thought my only chance was AK tight or AK 3rd.

 

Oddly, if you want to talk me into playing for 10-9-2 or 10-9-3 when holding 10-9-6-2, you SHOULD cover the 7 and the 8, otherwise I have no choice but to drop AKx. If you have 10-9-3 or 10-9-2 and want to sell me on a 4 card holding; don't cover.....

 

I hope you didn't think I thought you were a fish for giving count here. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

As for me; these hands are a lot easier in retrsospect and I do enjoy discussing them.

 

And I'm glad this pulled you out of hibernation :)

[HeartA]

Oops, didn't pay attention to the bidding (East opened 1NT).

[Guest Jlall]

If I have 8-7-6 of spades, why am I starting them right away? And more importantly, if your view is that I'm going to run the ♠7, then there's not much you can do about it. And I appreciate the idea that you thought I could take a double chinese finesse with say 8-7-x LOL.

 

Taking the spade into isolation; if you think I'm playing the Q (and not running the 7), you shouldn't cover; otherwise it leads me to into the winning position that I would not have been entitled to. On the 2nd round you covered the 8 and I could have taken the ruffing finesse as described.

If you are going to run the 7 from 87x or 87 doubleton there is something I can do about it...cover.

 

I agree that if I think you are going to play the queen I should never play the ten or 9, thats exactly what I was saying in my first post. From my point of view there is a significant chance that you, the red/white 4H bidder, knew where all the aces and kings are after i showed up with the QJ of diamonds and my partner had opened 1N.

 

As for whether or not theres a time count matters to partner, I will always follow the rule of not signalling with a trick and letting partner work it out. With T9x if i think you are playing the queen I will play low 100 % of the time. Maybe this is wrong but if a signal can cost a trick I won't make it.

 

As to why you're playing spades immediately with 87(x), maybe you need to get spades going before we play clubs. There isn't really much time to analyze what to do when they lead the 7 at trick 2.

[Finch]

What if I told you you could peek into Josh's hand and see the ♠AK......which is he MARKED with: 40 - (13 + 6) - (15-17) = 4-6 in LHO less 4 (already seen - with the ♥J) = zero to 2 points.

 

C'mon people!

C'mon people.

 

Have you never seen a third in green strong NT before? I bet, just like most people, you don't play double of it as penalties. Or do the opponents have some undertaking not to open 1NT on

 

Axx

Ax

Kxx

QJ10xx

 

which is a strong NT in any position, not just 3rd seat

 

or

 

Ax

Jx

Kx

QJxxxxx

 

?

 

I agree the odds favour the AK of spades on your right, but it's by no means certain....

[pclayton]

What if I told you you could peek into Josh's hand and see the ♠AK......which is he MARKED with: 40 - (13 + 6) - (15-17) = 4-6 in LHO less 4 (already seen - with the ♥J) = zero to 2 points.

 

C'mon people!

C'mon people.

 

Have you never seen a third in green strong NT before? I bet, just like most people, you don't play double of it as penalties. Or do the opponents have some undertaking not to open 1NT on

 

Axx

Ax

Kxx

QJ10xx

 

which is a strong NT in any position, not just 3rd seat

 

or

 

Ax

Jx

Kx

QJxxxxx

 

?

 

I agree the odds favour the AK of spades on your right, but it's by no means certain....

If thats the case, then I've been duped twice.

 

A. RHO opened a little light...and

 

B. Justin made a GREAT duck with KT9(x..) - especially with a blind club position.

 

I'll put my $ on AKx; thanks :)