Oren Goren Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Still actively seeking players of WELOS, which has yet to be completely defined online ... These are the West hands in a Bridge World Challenge the Champs match, Book III, Match A. The East hands are in a separate post/file. The matches were a series pitting World or National champion calibre pairs against each other, each independently bidding on sets of prepared and pre-scored hands. Each challenge was a new pair against the previous winner. Can you score well with WELOS interference? Most of the hands were bid without opponent interference. We have changed any E-W first seat hands to second seat and used the first WELOS one-bid opener random shuffling produced for first seat,but the vulnerability conditions for the E-W pair were not changed. WELOS one-bid openers count either 8-11 including distribution and long suit points, and do not discount for no ace. They also could be 16(+). Prepare your partnership methods to punish such effrontery, and see what contract you arrive at. If you decide that WELOS' incidental (!!) interference was significant, perhaps you should check out http://welos.proboards61.com. You can check the results yourself with Book III, inexpensisve and valuable from http://www.bridgeworld.com, http://www.bridgeworld.com/default.asp?d=b...orld_books.html, or post/email your result and I will tell you how you scored (in confidence by email)...... West Hands========= 1. N deals and bids 1♦; Neither vulnerable. ♠ KJ64♥ 3♦ K842♣ T642 2. N deals and bids 1♥. N-S vulnerable. ♠ KT4♥ 986♦ AT87543♣ -- 3. S deals and bids 1♠. E-W vulnerable. ♠ K♥ K6532♦ A9542 ♣ K7 4. S deals and bids 1♠. Both vulnerable. ♠ 532♥ AK75♦ 3♣ AKQJ2 5. N deals and bids 1♣. N-S vulnerable. ♠ KT632♥ 54♦ KT3♣ QT3 6. N deals and bids 1♣. E-W vulnerable. ♠ Q542♥ 6♦ 54♣ AQ6542 7. S deals and opens 1♦. Both vulnerable. ♠ K6♥ AT4♦ AK6♣ AKT53 8. S deals and opens 1♣. Neither vulnerable. ♠ 95♥ K7653♦ AQ75♣ AQ 9. N deals and opens 1♥. E-W vulnerable. ♠ QT♥ AQ♦ KJT76♣ J862 10. N deals and opens 1♥. Both vulnerable. ♠ AQ♥ 75♦ AJT764♣ JT5 Bid 'em up! Oren Gorenhttp://welos.proboards61.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 My auctions (hidden). Please let me know how that scores. 1. (1D) 2C 3C - 3H*3NT p * 4-card H and maximum overcall 2. (1H) X3D 4D*5D** 5S***6C**** 7Dp * RKC** 1 + void*** what void? no interest in trump Q**** void in Clubs 3.(1S)p 2C2H* 4Hp * NF constructive 4. (1S)2C 2H4D* 4S**5C*** 5S****7H 4D: splinter4S: void asking5C: 0/3, exactly singleton5S: confirms all aces and trump Q, asking for Kings7H: I count 13 tricks! 5. (1C) 1D1S* 2Sp * Forcing, promises 5 cards as we play Raptor. 6.(1C) X pass 7.(1D) X 1S2N p Similar to uncontested 2N p p p 8.(1C)1H p 1N2D p 3D3N 9. (1H) X2H* 3C3N 4N**6C * GF** Quantitative 10.(1H) 1S2D* p * NF Constructive This is just assuming the opening bids were natural. Of course if they were 8-11 or 16+, forcing you might want to change to a different defensive scheme but this was not relevant. What is the point exactly. The fact that the 1-level is opened often is not decisive, it's the raised auctions and 1NT+ openers that are the trouble makers, see for example Fantunes system in which 1NT up to 2S are very frequent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oren Goren Posted October 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Gerben:My auctions (hidden). Please let me know how that scores.Very poorly, actually. When such a poor and inexperienced partnership as Eisenberg-Goldman eked out a 63, and even the likes of such beginners as Averelli-Belladonna managed as much as 50 out of 101, one would expect you to do much better than just 78. But, in your defence, you got no score on hand 6. I'll email you what you need to know to complete the hand. This is just assuming the opening bids were natural. Of course if they were 8-11 or 16+, forcing you might want to change to a different defensive scheme but this was not relevant. What is the point exactly. The fact that the 1-level is opened often is not decisive, it's the raised auctions and 1NT+ openers that are the trouble makers, see for example Fantunes system in which 1NT up to 2S are very frequent. Well, you getting a much better result than either of two world champion partnerships does somewhat detract from the basic question: how does your method work over interference? "The fact that the 1-level is opened often is not decisive" is ambiguous. Often not decisive? Opened often? No way in Alabama will getting 38% of your strong hand openers taken from you be inconsequential? However, one point was to see if someone would decide to play some kind of cooperative double of the one-bid openers. The hands being so very strong, for the most part, made trying to take penalties a perhaps attractive option for one of the partners on some/many of the hands. Were the E-W hands less powerful there would be lots of raises and other interference, and if we switch the WELOS responder's hand with the second hand of the E-W partnership things could be very interesting. WELOS would be one important round up in the competition for part scores. Thanks! Oren Goren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 Gerben:My auctions (hidden). Please let me know how that scores.Very poorly, actually. When such a poor and inexperienced partnership as Eisenberg-Goldman eked out a 63, and even the likes of such beginners as Averelli-Belladonna managed as much as 50 out of 101, one would expect you to do much better than just 78. As I recall, I the world champions didn't get to bid the hands double dummy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted October 1, 2006 Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 As I recall, I the world champions didn't get to bid the hands double dummy... Although this is partially true I tried to bid the hands as far apart as possible (also bid them 10 at the time per hand, of course) and did not know the partner hand by heart when I bid them. Otherwise I'd most likely score 90+ :) In defense of the World championship pairs their methods were perhaps more suited to more solid opening styles as were common in their area. Now for the Double-Dummy analysis: Hand 1: I think this auction should be copied by many although the world champions may have started with a Double, causing many problems. Hand 2: Easy Double, 5431 and high point count make it unsuitable for overcall / Raptor.3♦ also seems clear, and now Doubler's hand is huge. Should reach at least 6D with anyone, 7D with any regular partner which is at worst on the marked Spade finesse. Hand 3: I decided that the hand was not worth a 2-suiter or a simple overcall in direct seat, otoh I would not pass out 1S in balancing, so I tried 2C (in WELOS this would not happen, opener's partner would have to respond in some way fearing the 16+ variation). Now West had another nasty problem: Raise or bid Hearts? I would bid the Hearts here, partner knows they are not great. You just have to believe me that I didn't remember the partner hand. It is true! If East had the red suits inverted this would be less sucessful but I would still make the bid. The principle of the transferred King would then mean East would rebid 2NT, and 3C ends the auction in that case, missing the 5 - 3 Diamond fit. As it was, the 2H bid improved the East hand by enough to bid 4H. Hand 4: This grand is much easier than the previous one, but again not if you start with a double... Hand 5: Both players know of the 5 - 3 fit and the player with 5 Spades has such a bad hand that he will not budge over 2S. The only discussion point is if overcaller is worth 3S right away but I don't think so. After all 1D over 1C must have a point and is not random noise. Hand 6: I'd prefer to have better spots for the pass but the IMP player I am I took a certain plus score and was left with 500 opposite 600something. I guess at MP (normal for Challenge the Champs) you should be looking for partner's 4th Spade and be annoyed if you do not find it since you now missed out on something. Hand 7: A hand with no story. Show a big balanced hand and find partner with nothing... Did it make? Hand 8: Interesting what to do after 1NT. Shoot 3? Bid 2NT? 3D? All roads will lead to 3NT though. Hand 9: Partner forces to 3NT where I could have 11 but I have 18. That's surely worth a 4NT, after which 6C is clear. Or 6NT? In most fields 6C will still be most of the marbles anyway. Minor suit slams after opps open and all... Hand 10: Well I've got a bad 5-card Spade, not that many strength and at least my singleton in partner's suit is a big one. Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oren Goren Posted October 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2006 This is just assuming the opening bids were natural. Of course if they were 8-11 or 16+, forcing you might want to change to a different defensive scheme but this was not relevant.For the casual reader, the WELOS openers in question are all natural. What is the point exactly. The fact that the 1-level is opened often is not decisive, it's the raised auctions and 1NT+ openers that are the trouble makers, see for example Fantunes system in which 1NT up to 2S are very frequent.I had noted but not read the Fantunes/Mosca piece on your page ( Gerben). But now ... I note that WELOS twos include most of yours (some of yours are too strong, and the flattish ones are opened 1NT) plus MANY others. Besides having to do a lot of data entry and progamming changes for the new NFL season (my methods apply only after week 4) I have vascillated on the writing of the WELOS twos response scheme. 'We' played a variety of methods, none demanded by the basic concept. Your response scheme seems perhaps fitting for WELOS; the HCP ranges are highly similar-looking once you add distributional count to your HCP count. At least version of the system. The short file/version differs from the long description, at least in the terminology. I'm tending to think that the non-relay bids over non-clubs may be the way to go. As of yet I do not feel I know how much of the response systems are based on opener having a 5-card suit. Also, I have no feel for auctions in which opener might rebid in a 3-card major. (Or minor.) LOL. I already appended your Hitchhiker/etc to WELOS MIDI/weak no-trump openers (but wonder - just superficially so far) about switching 2C and 2D. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oren Goren Posted October 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2006 SPOILER! Using 'quotes' just to clearly separate the hands. All 'quoted'bidding and commentary is Gerben's. 1. N deals and bids 1♦; Neither vulnerable. ♠ KJ64♥ 3♦ K842♣ T642 (1D) 2C 3C - 3H*3NT p * 4-card H and maximum overcall I think this auction should be copied by many although the world champions may have started with a Double, causing many problems.Neither pair used doubles and Eisenberg-Goldman got to losing slam, for a disastrous zero they overcame. 2. N deals and bids 1♥. N-S vulnerable. ♠ KT4♥ 986♦ AT87543♣ -- (1H) X3D 4D*5D** 5S***6C**** 7Dp * RKC** 1 + void*** what void? no interest in trump Q**** void in Clubs Easy Double, 5431 and high point count make it unsuitable for overcall / Raptor.3♦ also seems clear, and now Doubler's hand is huge. Should reach at least 6D with anyone, 7D with any regular partner which is at worst on the marked Spade finesse. 3. S deals and bids 1♠. E-W vulnerable. ♠ K♥ K6532♦ A9542 ♣ K7 (1S)p 2C2H* 4Hp * NF constructiveI decided that the hand was not worth a 2-suiter or a simple overcall in direct seat, otoh I would not pass out 1S in balancing, so I tried 2C (in WELOS this would not happen, opener's partner would have to respond in some way fearing the 16+ variation). Now West had another nasty problem: Raise or bid Hearts? I would bid the Hearts here, partner knows they are not great. You just have to believe me that I didn't remember the partner hand. It is true! [OG: lol] If East had the red suits inverted this would be less sucessful but I would still make the bid. The principle of the transferred King would then mean East would rebid 2NT, and 3C ends the auction in that case, missing the 5 - 3 Diamond fit. As it was, the 2H bid improved the East hand by enough to bid 4H.Well, a WELOS partner has no more reason to respond in third seat than a standard opener's partner. A standard opener also can have 16+ (15 hcp balanced). 4. S deals and bids 1♠. Both vulnerable. ♠ 532♥ AK75♦ 3♣ AKQJ2 (1S)2C 2H4D* 4S**5C*** 5S****7H 4D: splinter4S: void asking5C: 0/3, exactly singleton5S: confirms all aces and trump Q, asking for Kings7H: I count 13 tricks! This grand is much easier than the previous one, but again not if you start with a double... 5. N deals and bids 1♣. N-S vulnerable. ♠ KT632♥ 54♦ KT3♣ QT3 (1C) 1D1S* 2Sp * Forcing, promises 5 cards as we play Raptor. Both players know of the 5 - 3 fit and the player with 5 Spades has such a bad hand that he will not budge over 2S. The only discussion point is if overcaller is worth 3S right away but I don't think so. After all 1D over 1C must have a point and is not random noise. 6. N deals and bids 1♣. E-W vulnerable. ♠ Q542♥ 6♦ 54♣ AQ6542 (1C) X passOpener's partner took the double out to 1D. 7. S deals and opens 1♦. Both vulnerable. ♠ K6♥ AT4♦ AK6♣ AKT53 (1D) X 1S2N p Similar to uncontested 2N p p p I'd prefer to have better spots for the pass but the IMP player I am I took a certain plus score and was left with 500 opposite 600something. I guess at MP (normal for Challenge the Champs) you should be looking for partner's 4th Spade and be annoyed if you do not find it since you now missed out on something. 8. S deals and opens 1♣. Neither vulnerable. ♠ 95♥ K7653♦ AQ75♣ AQ (1C)1H p 1N2D p 3D3N A hand with no story. Show a big balanced hand and find partner with nothing... Did it make?Spades split so the answer is yes. 9. N deals and opens 1♥. E-W vulnerable. ♠ QT♥ AQ♦ KJT76♣ J862 (1H) X2H* 3C3N 4N**6C * GF** Quantitative Interesting what to do after 1NT. Shoot 3? Bid 2NT? 3D? All roads will lead to 3NT though. Partner forces to 3NT where I could have 11 but I have 18. That's surely worth a 4NT, after which 6C is clear. Or 6NT? In most fields 6C will still be most of the marbles anyway. Minor suit slams after opps open and all...Sonny gave 7/11 for the club slam. 11 for NT. 10. N deals and opens 1♥. Both vulnerable. ♠ AQ♥ 75♦ AJT764♣ JT5 (1H) 1S2D* p * NF Constructive Well I've got a bad 5-card Spade, not that many strength and at least my singleton in partner's suit is a big one. Pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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