luis Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 While 3 point ranges NTs are popular (12-14, 13-15, 15-17 and the old 16-18) I've been experimenting with a 14-17 NT lately with a lot of success.The idea is going with-the-panel in the 15-17 hands bidding the same they would bid facing a 15-17 opening. Invitational sequences make some more sense now and opener knows that 16-17 hands are in the acceptance range while the 14-15 hands are not. No more good/bad 16 dilemmas.So far this is working very well so if you want to try it go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Luis - I played an 11-14 NT for a while , and have switched to 14-16 for systemic reasons. I have been thinking about extending the range up or down a point or half a point. Questions: 1) As responder, when inviting and going to game, are you "with-the-panel" - i.e. 8 invites and 10 accepts? If so, do you find yourself overbidding? If not, do you miss games others find?2) Do you use some sort of extended Stayman to help you on this? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted December 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Luis - I played an 11-14 NT for a while , and have switched to 14-16 for systemic reasons. I have been thinking about extending the range up or down a point or half a point. Questions: 1) As responder, when inviting and going to game, are you "with-the-panel" - i.e. 8 invites and 10 accepts? If so, do you find yourself overbidding? If not, do you miss games others find?2) Do you use some sort of extended Stayman to help you on this?Peter As a general rule we copycat the panel as if we had a 15-17NT, if they are in game we want to be in game too. But we reach some games that the 15-17 Nters don't reach, mostly 14 vrs 10 NT games, while this 24 HCP games sometimes go down sometimes you make them and that is usually a bunch of imps for your side. The panel is usually weaker in average than our level of play so we can compensate the point we lack sometimes on the play. I used to play the 14-16 NT but I just hate not opening 1NT with 17 as all the players in the room will be doing, you are subject of overcalls that didn't happen in all the tables, you can play the contract from the "wrong" side etc etc. That's why we choose the 14-17 range.In our last tournament the following happened (MPs) - Pd opened a 14NT nv, went down 1 the panel was making 1NT on the other wind. Absolute top #1.- Pd opened a 14NTnv I bid 3NT with 1HCP and 7 clubs. Down 4 with 4s making on the other side. Absolute top #2.- Pd opened a 14NT, they overcalled 2h and played there on a 5-1 fit. Absolute top #3.- I opened a 14NT vul, went down 1, everybody making 2s in the other wind. Absolute top #4 There were 3 more sightings of the 14-17NT that were average or average plus on the play copycating the panel since we didn't have 14. About your second question we play the same structure we played using the 15-17 NT, Stayman, 4-way transfers, Smolen, etc. South African transfers, etc. Nothing strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Hi Luis, I have played 14-17 for a very long time, my card is marked (14)15-17. In general, with 14 and a good five card suit, or 14 rich in Ten's and Nine's, I "upgraded" to 15. But on the top end, a 17 hcp hand with similar features was "too good" for 1NT. This always worked ok for me. On the other hand, there is something to be said for ETM victory strategy of all NT ranges being limited to 2 hcp, so that "natural invintations" are not used. A two point range being too narrow to worry about is this weak for the bidding or strong for the bidding. I very much enjoy the 2hcp range approach they use. Currently I am using the 14-16 hcp range almost exclusively with regular partners. I do not upgrade 13 point hands, but there are some 16 hcp hands that I consider too good to open 1NT. BTW, I like that nonvul 1NT-3NT with weak hand an long suit at favorable vul. The only time it runs into trouble is when you are down four or five and they have at most partscore, or even if they have game, the field is not bidding it. But it is a good shot, and I have used it a couple of times with good effect. This is also true on the following auction... 1H-3H (weak)-4H when you know you are toast1H-2H (weak)-4H ditto Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikestar Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 I've never played 14-17, but I played 13-16 for many years in a modified Precision and the four-point spread was never a problem. I've even played 10-14 (the ACBL maximum legal 5 point spread) in a K/S type system. Constructive 1NT auctions did suffer somewhat from the wide range, but we got all the preemptive advantages of the 10-12 NT with much better defined sequences in our one of a suit auctions (comparable to normal K/S). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Hi Luis! The problem with extending limits is need to evaluate hand and if you count it, your real limit is at least 1HCP more or less than absolute count. 13-18 is difficulte to menage after 1NT opening, because it already "eat" lot of bidding space. As Ben mention I never upgrade my 13HCP and dont open with good 16, so real limit is 14-15, after evaluation 13-16, maximum theoretical limit for 2 level bid. I know you will play 14-17 NT with sucsess, as well as any other range, simple because you are good thinking player... Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 i play 14-17 in 4th seat, 10-13 the rest of the time.. i like this just fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 luke warm writes: "i play 14-17 in 4th seat, 10-13 the rest of the time.. i like this just fine" How do your results compare vu versus not vul? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 vulnerable i'm more susceptible to big numbers (naturally), but i think the system does just fine anytime... good escape structure is necessary, vul or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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