How do you play this?

[starfruit]

Hi everyone!

It's been a while since I've last posted... now stucked with a bidding theory.

 

The current partner that I'm playing with told me that for

1♠ - (X) - 2♠, he might raise with nothing at all.

(Guess he got it from simply following the LAW book :D)

 

Problem comes when sometimes I've got totally no idea how strong he is and

we ended up missing some games and going down a few times at lvl 3.

On the contrary, I don't seem to recall any opponents going too high due to the "preemptive raise" though.

 

Just today, he tried 1NT holding ♠Qxx♥xxx♦JT9x♣KQJ and we couldn't compete over opponent's 3♦ as I'm the one with shape but had no idea about the ♠ support.

 

Is a raise promising nothing at all a "standard"?

If so, how do you get to show your points?

Do you pass first and bid again later? (we originally agreed that passing first and coming in later shows 4carded♠ support with random 6-9HCP with shape. The kind of hands you call a mixed raise)

 

What's worse, I've seen "Experts" raising their partners with just Hx! (an honor plus a spot card)

Is this a common strategy at all? :(

 

I'd think that the vulnerability matters here too... but how would that change your actions?

P.S. : how do you edit a poll?

[whereagles]

Usually experts distinguish from a bad and an half-decent raise by

 

1♠ dbl 2♥ = decent raise, 8+

1♠ dbl 2♠ = junk raise, 0-7. Could be 2 cards, e.g. Hx only.

 

To bid hearts just bid the suit below:

 

1♠ dbl 1NT...2♦ = transfer to next suit, usually no fit, 7+

 

This is called "Cappelletti over 1-of-a-major doubled" (CAPP/1MX)

[starfruit]

Oh I remember having seen this somewhere before...

The only bid which you sacrifice is a natural 1NT?

Since so many experts play it, seems like it implies that 1NT is not that nice a place to play in. :(

[pbleighton]

Not sure how many experts play Whereeagles' methods. They aren't legal in GCC events in the ACBL, for example (I can't speak for other jurusdictions).

 

I bid 2S on anything. Because of this, my Jordan (2NT) responses can be a little light.

 

Peter

[kenrexford]

Also called Suit/Lead, the agreement is somewhat common and very GCC legal in the ACBL. (The ACBL allows "defenses" to a double.)

 

Suit/Lead (transfers, with one-under constructive and simple raise "nuisance") are also commonly used after a major overcall, a two-level major opening, and a two-level major overcall, jump or no jump, always doubled.

[inquiry]

Not sure how many experts play Whereeagles' methods. They aren't legal in GCC events in the ACBL, for example (I can't speak for other jurusdictions).

 

I bid 2S on anything. Because of this, my Jordan (2NT) responses can be a little light.

 

Peter

Actually, the methods are GCC allowed... the actual text allowing it is under the competitive auctions says...

 

5. TRANSFER RESPONSES/ADVANCES to overcalls where the call

shows length or values in the suit of the transfer.

 

You might argue that these transfers are only for the side that overcalls, but rule 9 states...

 

Numbers 4 through 8 under RESPONSES AND REBIDS above APPLY

TO BOTH PAIRS.

 

So i would say the transfer advance in competition is GCC legal.

[kenberg]

I have always been happiest playing that I can bid 2S directly with the responding hand you describe and I am content with passing when I have three spades and, say, three points. I play light immediate raises with some folks, but I don't find them all that effective.

 

 

There probably should be, maybe on a thread of its own, a discussion of how the doubling side should handle the artificial raises that light raises force. For example 1S-X-2H showing a normal spade raise. I suppose double shows hearts and 2S is the equivalent of a responsive double, but I would be far from certain partner would understand this without previous discussion. And what does it mean if fourth seat passes 2H and then, later, doubles 2S?

 

Many of these gadgets lose their edge, if they have an edge, once opponents catch on and devise counter-measures.

 

Ken

[Gerben42]

They are also useful when our side overcalled, for example:

 

(1♣) 1♠ (Dbl) 2♠

(2NT) ?

 

♠Kxxxx

♥AQxxx

♦Ax

♣x

 

Now it would be nice to know if partner has nothing or something :wub:

[inquiry]

Many of these gadgets lose their edge, if they have an edge, once opponents catch on and devise counter-measures.

It is not the good raise that causes problems for the defenders. If opener has 11 hcp as a reasonable minimum, and responder is raising with a good hand via 2H (say 8 hcp at a minimum), and doubler has 11 hcp, that leaves precious little for advancer (in this everyone minimum model, he could have 10 hcp tops). Of course someone could have psyched.

 

Ths advantage comes when respnder can get his "raise" off his chest despite minimum values. This doesn't mean raise with 3 cards and 4333 and zero hcp, LOTT or not. But it does mean, light raise with Hx for lead. It does mean light raise to take away an easy cue-bid by advancer. 1S-(dbl)-2S-(3C) now makes 3C more comepetive in nature than 1S-(dbl)-Pass-(3C). The light raise has removed one full level of bidding from them. They will bid less effectively with less room.

 

Now, the 1S-(dbl)-2H bid is constructive, forward going. The 2H bidder is probably thinking this is his hand. Over this, I play DBL as as hearts, 2NT as lebenshol (you are not really wanting to play 2NT opposite a construcitve raise..2S as general force, and 3C/3D/3H as competitive. This may not be the optimal treatment however, as I usaully have a passing hand on this auction, so I am not sure what is theoretically the best. With both minors and enough to bid, you will get a chance to ballance back in with 2NT for general takeout.

[cherdano]

I don't like raising on "nothing" any more. I feel I should at least have a good chance to have an entry to my hand. So Kxx xx xxxx xxxx is good enough, heart ruff or ♠K should work as an entry. But 9xx Qxx xxxx xxx isn't.

 

Evidently there is no law safety when you don't have an entry, as partner may not be able to take finesses that he will get for free on defense, thus reducing the number of total tricks by anything between 0 and 3.

[pclayton]

We play transfers starting with xx. A direct raise is in the 2 to bad 7 range, but I've seen it on a bust NV.

[Walddk]

Usually experts distinguish from a bad and an half-decent raise by

 

1♠ dbl 2♥ = decent raise, 8+

1♠ dbl 2♠ = junk raise, 0-7. Could be 2 cards, e.g. Hx only.

No surprise: some reverse this method after double.

 

Recently, twice in the same set on vugraph from Italy, we saw 2♥ (bad spade raise) on

 

Jxx

xx

Jxxxx

xxx

 

I play my bad raises as 0-5 (obviously not zero when vulnerable), so my partner wouldn't expect more for my 2♥ ... or 2♠ if you prefer that to be your weak raise.

 

Roland

[keylime]

I play Meckwell advances over 1M - X:

 

1H - X - 1NT* (forces 2C, either to play or to raise to 2H and a lead director)

1H - X - 2C (forces 2D, like above)

1H - X - 2D (the "good raise")

 

I admit I am having a rethink about 1H - X - 2NT being the LR or better.

[1eyedjack]

Being a simple soul I often play 1?-(X)-1N = sound raise to 2 of opener, just for consistency with the 1?-(X)-2N = sound raise to 3.

 

I don't remember regretting the loss of the natural 1N.

 

I like the idea of the transfers and/or Meckwell approach, though.