Basic q-bid question

[grbradt]

[hv=d=s&s=skqj87hakjda2c863]133|100|[/hv]

 

A book example, with South opening, the auction is

 

1♠ 2♦

2♠ 3♠

4♥ 4♠

5♦ 6♠

pass

 

Why does South show Heart stopper first? Looks like he shows 2nd round

Diamond control with this sequence?

[HeartA]

My understanding on the sequense is as follows:

1) North can not bid 2H over 2D, as that would show at least 4 hearts;

2) North doesn't want to bid 4D over 3S, as that would show support for diamonds (3+)

3) Even if North bid 4D over 3S, South's choice would still be 4S. North then had to bid 5H to show heart control. Remember that q-bid from the lowest level is not necessarily save space.

[grbradt]

So the first q-bid cannot be a suit bid by partner. OK, thanks!

[cherdano]

So the first q-bid cannot be a suit bid by partner. OK, thanks!

I don't know, maybe the author thinks so.

 

Anyway, I would cue-bid 4D then 5H, since for me, spades is set as trumps. Don't worry too much about this, as long as South makes clear that club control is the problem, NS will get to slam.

 

Arend

[kenrexford]

My suspicion is that this "book example" is an example of a specific style adopted by the author, one that might not have been carefully explained. It appears that the idea is for a cuebid to show first-round control if the cuebid is a first cuebid or a cuebid at the five-level.

 

With AK-A in two side suits, you are faced with a problem, apparently. If you start with 4♦, then bid 5♥, you can read both red aces, but nothing more (except a lack of club control, perhaps -- maybe just not the club Ace...). If you execute a "cuebid reverse," by cuebidding a higher suit first (hearts) and then a lower suit (diamonds), apparently this is a technique to show double heart control. Otherwise, why reverse the order from up-the-line cuebids? With AK of hearts and A of clubs, you'd apparently cue 4♥, then 5♣. With AK of diamonds and A of clubs, you would cue 4♦, then 5♣, it seems.

 

This might mean that an up-the-line cue (cuebidding clubs, then diamonds, or clubs then hearts, or diamonds then hearts) might suggest (or promise) AK in the lower, and A-only in the higher. Not sure.

 

If you are learning cuebidding, keep in mind that there are two main schools of thought, and several alternatives to those. Some of the more unusual approaches include denial cuebids, spiral scans, and the like, perhaps valuable but only used by a rare and established partnership. The more mainstream thought is either in the first-round control first crowd (see Ron Klinger's book, "Cue-Bidding to Slams," published in 1983) or what is sometimes called "Italian" cuebidding, where cuebids might be first-or-second round, even if immediate (see Fred Gitelman's articles "Improving 2/1 GF" on the BBO site). My feeling is strongly that the latter is superior, once learned well; this seems to be the modern thinking also.

[HeartA]

So the first q-bid cannot be a suit bid by partner. OK, thanks!

Not an absolute "No", but could be taken in that way. It could be taken as double fit (especially if two-suit RCK is agreed between partnership), I like cue-bidding H first for the given hand.

[Stephen Tu]

Another thing about cue bidding hearts here -- if you cue bid diamonds, partner almost has to bid 4S since it requires quite a bit of strength to bid 5c over 4d without any heart control, which you know he does not have. By bidding hearts, you allow a good hand with CA and good diamonds to take captaincy with blkwood or the like, and he will be in better position to know whether grand slam is in the picture because he knows how many diamond tricks are likely to be taken.

[SoTired]

So the first q-bid cannot be a suit bid by partner. OK, thanks!

Not necessarily. The 4H bid says: "Here is my strength. How does that look for slam to you?" Responder does not know that club control is important, so with no extra strength signs-off in 4S.

 

First, any bid over 4S shows the strength for slam, but missing something.

 

5D says: "I have enuf extra strength for slam with hearts and diam under control. Since above game q-bids always show 1st round control, I must have the ♦A. Since I q-bid hearts first, I must have ♥AK. I am only worried about clubs."

 

Instead, if opener bid 5S over 4S, it would carry the message: "I have the minors under control with good hearts. But I have weak spades. How are you fixed?" Responder should pass without 2 of the top 3 spade honors.

 

If opener bid 5C over 4S, it would say: "I have hearts and clubs under control. How are your diam?" Responder could bid 5S without a top diam, 5D with the ♦A, 6S with ♦KQ, or even 6D with real strong diam like ♦AKxxxx offering opener a chance to bid a grand.