matmat Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I think there should be a European Union flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Agree, I would probably use it since I'm somewhat Dutch and somewhat Danish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 When the EU sends someone to the UN.Orwhen we allow personalization of the images Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 When the EU sends someone to the UN. Don't quite follow this. We allow England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland each to have their own flags, but as far as I know only the United Kingdom sends a representative to the UN. I could be mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 When the EU sends someone to the UN. Don't quite follow this. We allow England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland each to have their own flags, but as far as I know only the United Kingdom sends a representative to the UN. I could be mistaken. I'm working from memory here, however there seem to be a number of ways that a country can qualify for its own flag... Some of those are based on recognitions by interanational political bodies such as the UN. Others are based on whether or not a geographical entity is recognized as separate and distinct during different bridge competitions. I believe that Scotland, Wales, and the like qualify because they send teams to the Bermuda Bowl. With all this said and done... Its interesting that the request for an EU flag has cropped up at the same time that the Buffet Bowl is going on. Here, the continent of Europe is competing is an prestigious internation competion as a super national body. One might argue that not all members of the European team would claim that they are citizens of the EU. (I have no idea about the politics of different members of the European teams). Then again, some residents of Scot might want to display the Scottish flag while others show the Union Jack. Personally, I think that this is a reasonable request. (Unlike my continual requests that BBO add a flag for Mordor... Which I'm still rooting for) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I think we should toss the flags completely but that is for a future discussion. I'm not going to add this to Fred's list of things to do, but feel free to raise the issue again when he returns (a week from now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I think we should toss the flags completely but that is for a future discussion. Well... that raises the obvious question what, if anything, would you replace them with... There is space available and folks seem to like to display some kind of image. Digital avatars are getting increasingly popular. OKB allowed players considerable lattitude to display whatever image they pleased and almost immediately started to encounter problem with different individuals fighting over what should/should not be displayed. In particular, a number of folks started to display images of nude women which started an extremely ugly brou-ha-ha... To make matters worse, some other folks started to display some racial insensitive toons. National flags always seemed like a elegant way to side step the whole issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkson Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I think there should be a European Union flag. Yes, but caution !For instance, Helgemo is from Norway, and Norway is not a UE country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 I think there should be a European Union flag. Yes, but caution !For instance, Helgemo is from Norway, and Norway is not a UE country. What "caution" is needed? The flag to display is the choice of the player, not the software, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkson Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 What "caution" is needed? The flag to display is the choice of the player, not the software, right? I mean when a match is between Europe and another country, like during the present Warren Buffet Cup vugraph. There is a flag for USA, and no flag for Europe.You may look at this file, for instance :http://bridgebase04.bridgebase.com:81/vug/...losed%20EN5.lin In that case flags are chosen by the software. It seems that they have no flag for "Europe". In the different case of an individual player, which european player will choose the UE flag instead of his own country flag ? I imagine that very few, until long (and of course none from a european country out of UE). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted September 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 In the different case of an individual player, which european player will choose the UE flag instead of his own country flag ? I imagine that very few, until long (and of course none from a european country out of UE). Uhm. I would, for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 National flags always seemed like a elegant way to side step the whole issue. Chinese Taipei was the most obvious example of "flag trouble" , but Macedonia and various middle eastern flags have been used as pokers on occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 Well I would really be sad if flags would be removed. It is much easier to identify players with a flag than having to read the country name. And what is this "trouble" about? Chinese players claiming that they do not accept Taiwan's flag? In what way is this anyone else's problem? They play seperately in bridge events so they should have a flag. What was the problem with Macedonia? Just a country like any other. My mixed partner in Verona is from Macedonia and she was the first one so so far we made the best ever result for Macedonia in a bridge world championship :o I would really like to know what the problem is FOR BBO. People are allowed to identify themselves with any country or region they like, but to offer them for the software makers does not seem to violate anything. As long as you are not offering denouncable symbols like the Nazi flag you should be allright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted September 18, 2006 Report Share Posted September 18, 2006 What was the problem The problem is that some people seem to object strenuously to other people using (say) the word "Tai..an" in a context that implies it is an independent country. Likewise for Macedonia. I will add that I have absolutely no public opinions on these matters, nor does BBO. What's this to us? Nothing in one sense. In another sense, we don't want to fight off NBOs or angry customers. Nor do we want to make it awkward for members of an NBO to play on our site. If the FFB asked us to rename Reunion Island to French Reunion Island on pain of losing all FFB members and vugraphs, we probably would rename the flag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rona_ Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 What was the problem with Macedonia? Just a country like any other. A dispute with Greece over the name. It became a member of the United Nations under the name FYROM. So I assume that the Greeks on BBO objected not to the flag but the name under the flag :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted September 19, 2006 Report Share Posted September 19, 2006 Well it would be nice to have a european flag on BBO and i think the if flags for e.g. "The lunar dogsitter club" were added, this would help BBO to make clear that the flags don't represent indipendent contries.On the other hand, this could lead to unlimited number of flags ....More usefull than the flags would be a list of languages the player is able to communicate in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 I can understand Uday's problem but still think it is sad that people take this business so seriously that it is a problem for BBO to let people choose these flags. Why can't we all just... get along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 I like the flags as they show the diversity of BBO. It feels cool playing on a team with a partner from Indonesia and teammates South Africa and Peru. Not that it really matters, of course. Indeed, a list of languages would be practical, like a list of bidding systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTodd13 Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Why can't we all just get along? To me, the answer appears to be human nature. Humans appear to be programmed to try to run other people's lives and try to force them to live as they see fit. This instinct manifests itself in many ways such as ostracism but primarily through the need of government to seemingly legitimize themselves. Look at the totally insane drug war. I saw a report yesterday that the US spends 10-12 billion dollars a year try to enforce marijuana prohibition and that more marijuana users are arrested than all violent criminals put together. A third of americans try marijuana at some point in their lives and thus 1/3 of the populace have been defined to be criminals. People are always going to do stupid self-destructive things and it isn't anybody's business trying to stop them. The masses seem to differ with my opinion and it is just the busybody syndrome. Anyway, governments breed nationalism to maintain the status quo and keep the us-versus-them mentality. They seek to maximize their power which means that they cannot let anybody choose to leave their control. People get very upset when their power to run others' lives is dimished, ergo the refusal of China to let Taiwan be "free" not to mention the refusal of Lincoln to let the south be free. I guess he forgot the contents of the declaration of independence. To the degree that flags are mixed up with nationalism, I hate them. It is useful to know whether someone is located for a number of reasons...language, time zone, likely systems they play. I second what others have suggested. Give the ability to list languages, your timezone and your systems. Let people type in their location and then nobody can blame BBO for taking a political position on whether a territory is independent. Another option is just to ban all fascists from BBO. If someone complains that Taiwan has a separate flag then ban them. They come to your free site and start complaining...who the hell gave them the right. I'm sick of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdct Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I think we should get rid of the flags altogether and replace it with languages spoken which will actually be useful information when deciding which table to sit at. It would also open up a whole lot of potential new functionality in future versions of BBO such as: - Automatic vugraph commentators requests with languages spoken being a selection criterion. - Automatic translation (probably via a freeware translation engine such as google or alta-vista) of chat comments which will go a long way to alleviating the frequent problem of players talking to eachother in a language their opponents don't understand. - Automatic translation of vugraph commentary to one of your spoken languages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 Todd: I agree with all what you say. Unfortunately I (like some 99% of the World's population) have been brainwashed with nationalism. It's very difficult to un-learn, similar to fighting against one's religion of one's intuitive understanding of the Universe as three-dimensional. So it gives me a sense of sequirity to know the nationality of my peers. Actually, I would like to know their sex as well. At least I can say that I honestly don't care about their age, etnicity, skin color and political views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 one's intuitive understanding of the Universe as three-dimensional. The world isn't flat??!?!?!?! Actually, flags, or at least country of origin/location serves a fairly important purpose when playing bridge online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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