late night hand-3

[mike777]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=sajt4ha9dkt54c976]133|100|Scoring: MP

P=P=(1H)=X

(1S)=2D=(X!)=P

(2S)=P=P=??

 

(X!) BY RHO WAS A SUPPORT X SHOWING 3 SPADES.[/hv]

 

Yet another MP decision.

 

Your call and reasoning?

[HeartA]

Pass, wtp?

 

I read it wrong. But I still pass anyway.

[ArcLight]

LHO doesn't have 3 card ♥ support, so pard has at least 4.

 

If they have a 4-3 ♠fit, pard has 2 spades. If LHO has 5 spades pard has 1.

I think thats likely since LHO is short in hearts and presumably Diamonds.

 

Our TO DBL only promises 3♦, so pard should probably have 5 to make a free bid.

 

Pard has room for 2 Clubs. Or 3 if LHO has 5 spades.

 

Could pard have 6♦? Would he make a weak 2 with a 4 card major?

 

 

If the opps are in a 4-3 fit, you may have 2 Spade tricks, on the other hand, you want to cash spades so the opps can't us ethem to ruff separately. Unfortunatly pards heart length is under RHOs.

 

-110 may be a lot worse than -100.

 

I'll bid 3♦ with no assurances. Maybe they go to teh 3 level with ♦ shortness

 

No way do I DBL 2♠.

[mikeh]

I pass.

 

I do not want to punish partner for making an aggressive call... partners should be encouraged to bid 2♦ here without promising a good hand: xx xxxx QJxxx Kx is ample... and he need not be (quite) that good at this heat: xx xxxx QJxx KJx... again, I would not want my partners passing 1♠ on that hand, nv, altho it could work out ok.

 

So raising ♦ is plain wrong: begging for a double and -300.

 

Doubling is the only logical althernative to pass, since it has two ways to win. Partner may have what we need to beat it, especially since ♦ leads will allow us to generate an extra trump trick on many layouts, and the double is not purely penalty, so it also allows us to sometimes get to 3♦, either making or a good mp save against 110.

 

But it has ways to lose as well, and the results of such a loss are terrible.... defending an unbeatable partial, or running to -300.

 

What tips the scale for me is the possibility that the opps have had an accident, perhaps because RHO fell in love with the toy that the support double afforded. It is not impossible that the opps have missed a more effective ♥ contract.. that RHO chose to show the 3rd ♠ rather than the 6th ♥ on a hand on which ♥ plays a trick better.

 

BTW, if the opps were red, double looks somewhat better because we have a shot at the magic 200... but I'm not sure that I'd risk it since partner is even more likely to be minimal values when white v red.

[ArcLight]

>I do not want to punish partner for making an aggressive call... partners should be encouraged to bid 2♦ here without promising a good hand: xx xxxx QJxxx Kx is ample... and he need not be (quite) that good at this heat: xx xxxx QJxx KJx... again, I would not want my partners passing 1♠ on that hand, nv, altho it could work out ok.

 

Now the question becomes "what does pards bid mean to you".

I'm not disputing your statement, but it affects how we respond.

Do most partnerships respond in this way?

[Finch]

and the double is not purely penalty, so it also allows us to sometimes get to 3♦, either making or a good mp save against 110.

I would say that the double is fairly close to being pure penalty. At IMPs, I would not expect partner to pull without a spade void.

 

Matchpoints is obviously a lot fuzzier, but I would expect partner to pass the double on any 1-4 or 2-5 in the pointed suits.

[bid_em_up]

3♦. I expect partner to be either 1-4-5-, 1-3-6-3 or 1-3-5-4 on this sequence.

 

I expect 3♦ will make the majority of the time, and 2♠ may well be making also. I dont think the opps to be able to double 3♦ for penalty very often, as both of their hands are limited and neither rates to hold more than 3 ♦.

 

If I double now, I will not outscore +110 (3♦ making) if 2♠ can only be defeated by one trick (quite probable) but I will be quite happy to double 3♠, should they bid it.

 

(Correction: I originally read the hand as they are not vul., so while +110 will not outscore +200, I have no certainties of beating 2♠ either.)

[kenberg]

If not vul I would bid 3D. Unless I read this wrong we are (contrary to a response or two) vul. W deals, I am 4th to call, NS are vul. So I pass. I doubt it will be dn 2, but dn 1 is likely. The opponents have a pretty good idea of how things are spread out and so will double when it's right.

 

I don't see the logic of a double here unless it is for penalties, and then I think it is optimistic. Partner is a passed hand and he has told me he has diamonds. I imagine he will think along the lines "I have told partner what I have, if he wants to play this doubled I'll respect his choice". Imagine my hand having more points but only three diamonds. I would pass the double of 2D and I would double 2S hoping to beat it, would I not? At any rate I think that is the hand partner would/should play me for if I double here. I don't have it. If this hand is to be played in 3D, it is for me to bid it.

 

I'm passing.

[BudH]

If LHO had four spades and two hearts, he would rebid 2♥. I think it likely LHO is 5-2 in the majors.

 

Using Bridge World Standard 2001 guidance, a 3♦ bid directly over the support double would be about a queen less than the same call without interference. And since the hand is close to minimum in strength, a pass is the proper call at that point.

 

I think partner will be often be 1=4=5=3. With 1=4=4=4 he would rebid 3♣ (or 2NT for the minors) over 2♠.

 

I would bid 3♦. But it's very close to a pass instead. If partner turns up with a doubleton spade instead of singleton, I'll know I was wrong!

 

My experience is that passing is probably (marginally) technically right, especially at this vulnerability at matchpoints, but in practice I always seem to learn I should have bid a confident 3♦ in this situation.

 

Bud H

[flytoox]

I vote for 3D. I read very carefully mikeh's analysis and I like his point. But still, i bid 3D. Pd seems to have 2452 (or better 1453.) If I let them playing 2S, the declarer wont get spade wrong and I dont think we can get many tricks.

[Gpm_bg]

i support those who vote for pass, your partner pass first, you gave dbl with 12 pts he bid ♠, even that he repeat, his lenght can be still 4th but no strnght to stay on penalty Dbl.

Any other forsing bid after 2♠ ( btw i would bid 2♠ not to dbl 2♦) is too strong and risky for me

[whereagles]

My instinct tells me to pass, and I'd certainly do that at IMPS.

 

At matchpoints, the "FTL lore" says our SST is 3-4. We probably have something like 18-20 working points, which hints at 3♦ making most of the time. Think I take a shot at it, though not fully convinced it's the right move. I'll do it just for theory's sake.. B)

[jdeegan]

:) 3♦. I think it ought to make. Anything might happen to 2♠, esp. if LHO has five and RHO has a stiff diamond. Can't fault a pass, tho.

[Codo]

I still believe, that pd tends to have 5 diamonds or a very good reason to bid 2 Diamond and I believe, that a double now is 98.5 % penalty.

 

The comments here showed me different views, but I will stick to my old ones.