mikestar Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 I don't know who invented it but there is a good LOTT-based agreement for negative doubles of 1HE: X shows 4 spades, 1SP shows 5+. After X, opener's 1SP shows exactly 3 (alertable), opener bids 2SP with 4. With this agreement in place, 1SP becomes a no-brainer for this hand. I think 1SP is a resonable choice without this agreement if X promises 4 spades, but 3-3 fits make me too nervous. I risk 1NT if X only shows 3 spades. Let me clarify: opener bids 2SP with 4 spades and the values for a single raise if responder had bid 1SP in an uncontested auction. With more values than this, opener bids 3S, 4S, splinters, etc. BTW, in one of his early K/S books, Kaplan says that 1SP over the negative double of 1HE is a subminimum hand in either values or support. With a bonafide single raise and 4 trumps, jump to 2SP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbin Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 You pick up this hand... A9xxxxkq109Axx1st seat you open 1 diamond LHO bids 1h your partner doubles... back to you? REPLY: I agree with Louis and The Hog: 1NT. And, if my partner should go to 3NT without H stop, and without asking me about that stop, e.g. bidding 2H, sure I'll change the partner.About the 1S rebidding: before to do this, I would verify the Helsinki Declaration (Ethical Principles for Medical Research Involving Human Subjects). :)Paolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 You pick up this hand... A9xxxxkq109Axx1st seat you open 1 diamond LHO bids 1h your partner doubles... back to you? REPLY: I agree with Louis and The Hog: 1NT. And, if my partner should go to 3NT without H stop, and without asking me about that stop, e.g. bidding 2H, sure I'll change the partner.About the 1S rebidding: before to do this, I would verify the Helsinki Declaration (Ethical Principles for Medical Research Involving Human Subjects). :)Paolo Paolo, with your permission I'll ask some of my pds about the Helsinki Declaration. I loved that quote! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 I don't know who invented it but there is a good LOTT-based agreement for negative doubles of 1HE: X shows 4 spades, 1SP shows 5+. After X, opener's 1SP shows exactly 3 (alertable), opener bids 2SP with 4. With this agreement in place, 1SP becomes a no-brainer for this hand. I think 1SP is a resonable choice without this agreement if X promises 4 spades, but 3-3 fits make me too nervous. I risk 1NT if X only shows 3 spades. You have to look long and hard to find a more devoted follower of LOTT than I. However, I don't like this particular scheme. For one thing, now you base the jump to 2S on four cards, not extra values, where 1C (1H) DBL (Pass) 2S Can be bid with either.... xxxx KJx QJx AQxx or AQJT x Axx KJxxx Some how, I think the constructive bidding trying to separate these hands while staying at a safe level will be just too tuff. I prefer to keep the jump as extra values, and as I noted earlier, I like the dbl of 1H to deny as many as 4S's on this auction (but 1C-(1S)-DBL promises 4+ hearts). Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Ben's post brings up a question I have for how people treat 1m p 1x 2M. Today I picked up this hand: AKQ10kxAKxxxxx With some partners i would rebid 2s over whatever he bids after 1 diamond, with others i rebid 1 spade and hope partner doesn't pass. I know most partner's styles well enough to know who will take a 2S bid as a suit and who will take it as points. How do you (everyone) handle this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Ben's post brings up a question I have for how people treat 1m p 1x 2M. Today I picked up this hand: AKQ10kxAKxxxxx With some partners i would rebid 2s over whatever he bids after 1 diamond, with others i rebid 1 spade and hope partner doesn't pass. I know most partner's styles well enough to know who will take a 2S bid as a suit and who will take it as points. How do you (everyone) handle this? I'm with you 2o1 I will bid 1s over 1hBut I will bid 2s over 2c because 1s is not legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well over 2c its a reverse... thats fine... but after 1c or 1d a JS may be in order to show points. Of course, some people play that a jumpshift here shows a real suit in addition to points... my partner today plays that and so I knew to just bid 1S for fear of him thinking I am 6 5. Other partners take my bid to mean 19ish points no club stopper in the sequence 1d 1h 2s since I would have rebid 2n with any sorta stopper. That is the essence of this question. Both ways have their pluses and minuses and its a partnership driven thing. So, now that Luis has forced me into long-windedness how do others treat this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 So, now that Luis has forced me into long-windedness how do others treat this? With no specific agreement or with "vanilla" partners who hold on the ways of their grandfathers.... 1c - (P) - 1h - (P); 1S shows unbalanced type hand, 4S and non-forcing. A jump to 2S would be reverse stregth, forcing, and promising only 4S or maybe 3S with a heart fit. Playing with my favorite partners or those who never played bridge "just for fun" in their life, then 1S is one round force, and can easily be bid with any hand, including this one, with or without extra stregth (And indeed with or without a real spade suit...assuming you know what you want to do on the next round). For instance, when playing with papatgreek, 1S is not forcing and I would jump to 2S with the hand in question. When playing with Misho, 1S is forcing, and I bid it comfortably. We use xyz convention, so if he raises 1S to 2S, he did so ONLY because he was forced to bid.. .with some real values he would go through an invintational 2C followed by a spade raise. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Agree with Ben:Playing with my present pd in the Polish style 1S is forcing but does not show reversing values2S is a GF Playing with ex pd1S was forcing2S was a mini splinter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Back to my original hand (the one that started this thread). The opener did actually rebid 1S at the table. His partner leapt to 4s.on a hand that looked something like this (been a week now so it isnt exact but close) KxxxxxAjxxxkq I know ive got the shape and HCPs close enough to be right. What do you bid if the bidding has gone 1d 1h x 1n now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Back to my original handKxxxxxAjxxxkq I know ive got the shape and HCPs close enough to be right. What do you bid if the bidding has gone 1d 1h x 1n now? A9xxxxkq109Axx KxxxxxAjxxxkq The problem was south’s need to jump to 4SPADES, no doubt because the negative double could be “weak”, ie, negative. If you play this double as showing 4 spades and any range, you might want to add xyz convention. Here over 1S, south bids 2D not 4S, this 2D doesn’t promise diamond support, but establishes game force. When south then supports dismonds, you get out of notrump or spades and back into diamonds. This same xyz convention works well over the 1NT rebid over the negative double as well. Example auctions given below. North East South West1D 1H DBL Pass1S Pass 2D Pass3C Pass 3D Pass4D Pass 5D All Pass North East South West1D 1H DBL Pass1NT Pass 2D Pass2S Pass 3D Pass3S Pass 4C Pass4D Pass 5D All Pass Of course, nothing wrong with a forcing 1S then xyz 2D bid either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trpltrbl Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 You pick up this hand... A9xxxxkq109Axx 1st seat you open 1 diamond LHO bids 1h your partner doubles... back to you?Gotta love them weak NT, solves all r problems :)But since we don't I have to lie, and I will make my best lie, 1 SP. I always have good pd with 5 card support :D And this is keeping us nice and low. If I have to lie, I lie as cheap as possible, it's my Dutch blood hehe. Mike ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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