What's your plan?

[awm]

You're playing fairly standard methods in a swiss teams, when you are dealt the following hand:

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=skqj5htdcakt98643]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

It's two passes to you. What's your opening bid?

 

If you open 1♣, partner responds 1♥ (amazingly both opponents pass for now). What's your rebid?

[kenrexford]

For fun, I'm opening 3NT (Gambling). If partner has a void in clubs, he will pull 3NT, and I'll bid 4♠. My partner is brilliant and can work this out as a choice bid.

 

If partner passes, he has a stiff club -- I hope they are 2-2 or a spade entry is there. He probably also has diamonds and hearts stopped and is crossing his fingers on spades.

 

Sure, 3NT might be wrong. But, I bet it works.

 

The funny part will be the strange look when he holds diamond stoppers and the club Queen.

 

The best part is that I feel confident in an ability to plausibly recover no matter what threat of disaster develops.

[hrothgar]

Depends to some extent on who I'm playing against...

 

If I'm playing a strong team, I'd probably just open 6♣. As I've noted in the past, I don't like burning too many cycles on freaks.

 

There's roughly a 56% chance that partner has either the Ace of Spades or the Ace of Hearts. Add on the possibility that partner has the Ace of Diamonds and we get a Diamond off the KQJ or some such, and I'm not terribly worried that the opps have 2 cashing tricks. Sure, clubs might mis-behave, but such is life.

 

Balanced against this, the chance of a grand seems small. The odds that partner has both key Aces is only 11% or so. Yes, a glorious scientific auction might give me all the information that I need, but honestly, I'd expecting lots of interference. In short, I think 6♣ is the most practical bid.

 

If I'm playing a weak team and expect an uncontested auction, i'd open 1♣ and then rebid 2♠

[mike777]

2clubs.

 

I think this hand is worth 10 playing tricks and I have an outside control.

 

If the opp's are silent, unlikely, and partner bids 2d promising some random A or K's I will rebid 4clubs asking partner to cuebid. This may lead to 6clubs down.....

If partner denies any aces or kings I will just rebid 5 clubs.

 

My plan is to give up on finding 44 spade fit with 8 clubs.

[HeartA]

8-4, I would insists my 8-carder, since pd didn't respond 1S.

[mike777]

Quite a range of options. Some open 6clubs, others open a nonforcing one club and rebid a nonforcing 1s or 3clubs, wow.

[pbleighton]

5C, but I wouldn't argue with a pd who opened 1C.

 

I don't like 2C on this hand type, but others do.

 

Peter

[hrothgar]

5C, but I wouldn't argue with a pd who opened 1C.

 

I don't like 2C on this hand type, but others do.

 

Peter

I can't understand a 5♣ opening...

 

5♣ isn't particularly well defined and provides zero bidding space for exploration.

 

Furthermore, if I have zero information about partner's hand, I prefer a 6♣ to a 5♣ contract. If you're going to blast, blast to the 6 level.

[zasanya]

Whats wrong with 1♣ followed by 2♠?Seems to solve all my problems since its forcing and doesnt promise more than 4 ♠ and i can always bid 5♣ any time after that.

[the hog]

I open 1C and over 1H bid 1S. Please don't tell my you play this as non forcing; I couldn't possibly play it that way.

2C incidentally is out of the question with such a lack of defensive values.

[Codo]

We play, that a 4 NT opening asks for specific aces, so this would be my bid.

Without this, I bid 1 Club followed by 2 Spade. 1 Spade had been forcing too, but 2 Spade shows more of the trick takig potential of my hand.

[whereagles]

Agree with hog. I'll bid 1♠ as well. I believe it's the technically correct bid because if pard has a 44xx, he'll support me and I'll be in pretty good shape. And if he bids something else, I always have a 5/6♣ bid in reserve.

 

I wouldn't be worried of it being forcing or non-forcing. I'm pretty sure the bidding won't end here.

[Blofeld]

For fun, I'm opening 3NT (Gambling). If partner has a void in clubs, he will pull 3NT, and I'll bid 4♠. My partner is brilliant and can work this out as a choice bid.

The major problem I see with this strategy is that 3NT in 3rd seat isn't the tightly defined 'gambling' hand it is in 1st or 2nd - at least for me, and I'd thought for the majority of players who've considered the matter.

 

All it shows is a desire to play 3NT. Partner will just about never pull it.

 

For what it's worth, I bid 6♣.

[kenrexford]

For fun, I'm opening 3NT (Gambling).  If partner has a void in clubs, he will pull 3NT, and I'll bid 4♠.  My partner is brilliant and can work this out as a choice bid.

The major problem I see with this strategy is that 3NT in 3rd seat isn't the tightly defined 'gambling' hand it is in 1st or 2nd - at least for me, and I'd thought for the majority of players who've considered the matter.

 

All it shows is a desire to play 3NT. Partner will just about never pull it.

 

For what it's worth, I bid 6♣.

Yeah, it was "just for fun." But, I am definitely not "tightly defined."

 

I still bet that 3NT would be passed out and make more often than not. LOL

[starfruit]

What about the issue of being Vul against not? While it might not be a big consideration for some, I do know some pairs who loves to sacrifice at this vulnerability. If playing against them, I know that there's an additional chance that they might guess wrongly to come in with ♦s and present me with free 500s and 800s, so there's even more appeal for the immediate blast. If it turns out to be a 2 way slam, that's just life. <_<

 

After 1♣-1♥, if 1♠ is forcing, why not? In fact it looks good as it saves bidding space.

However if you suspect that LHO is ready to come in with some nasty surprises, perhaps a 2♠ instead of a 1♠ bid would net you different responses from partner after LHO bids his ♦s. I would guess that 2♠ setting up a game force might enable you to find out that partner actually has some goodies if he made a forcing pass over the assumed 5♦ preempt that's about to come in. If that happens I would be happy to bid confidently to 6♣.

Otherwise we probably can't tell if partner has passed over 5♦ with a major suit ace also with some random queen and jacks. Even if he doubles, I doubt we can sensibly guess whether that's from a trump stack or just something like a maximum hand.

 

If LHO keeps quiet too, the jump hasn't cost us anything much.

[the hog]

"perhaps a 2♠ instead of a 1♠ bid "

 

In this part of the world, many would think that 2S was a "Love" bid.

A love bid? A mini splinter! Love is a mini splintered thing.

Sorry!!!!

[awm]

So here's what actually happened. The hand in question opened 1♣ and rebid 1♠ (non-forcing) over 1♥. Partner raised to 3♠. Opener cuebid 4♣ and partner tried to sign off in 4♠. At this point the opponents decided it was finally time to enter the auction and bid 5♦ over 4♠. Opener decided to pass and pull as a slam try, transferring the blame to responder. However, after the pass and pull, the other opponent bid 6♦. Now responder re-transferred the blame by passing again, and opener bid 6♠. This was promptly doubled in opener's right. Partner's hand was:

 

[hv=s=sa8xxhkjxxdjxxcqx]133|100|[/hv]

 

Spades broke 4-1, and the ace of diamonds lead doomed 6♠. Declarer was somewhat lucky to get out for two down. 6♣ is making. 5♦ is making the other way. Likely a win for opening 6♣, as it is by no means clear that opponents would find a 6♦ call over it.

[whereagles]

Ok, so it went down. But isn't it cold on a 3-2 break...? :rolleyes:

[HeartA]

Hiding the S fit may get you into 6C and opps, seeing you have only one suit fit, may not find their D fit.

[the hog]

"The hand in question opened 1♣ and rebid 1♠ (non-forcing)"

 

Hmm. Is there anyone who plays this as non forcing? If so please tell me what the rationale is.

 

The latter auction was like something out of Keystone Cops. First opposition bidding at the 5 level....poor judgement all round.

[mike777]

Why should 1s be forcing....1h can be on zero pts and zero clubs. See Kokish articles.

 

In fact Kokish recommends bidding something NV with zero pts and any number of clubs.

 

Forcing to what?

[awm]

I actually greatly prefer the 1♠ rebid as non-forcing. To summarize the reasoning:

 

The non-forcing 1♠ will help every time 1♠ is a good spot. Since most opening hands are in the minimum range and most of us respond fairly freely on 5-7 hcp (or even less) this is not a particularly rare event. I've won a lot of MPs (and a fair number of IMPs) stopping in 1♠ when others end up in a poor contract in notrump or 2M.

 

When will the non-forcing 1♠ hurt? In principle it could be on hands where opener has a game force and must bid 2♠ (eating some space) instead of 1♠. Of course, opener having a game force opposite a one-level response is a pretty rare event (keep in mind I'll rebid the non-forcing 1♠ with 18-19 balanced or equivalent). Even when this does come up, the jump to 2♠ creates a game forcing auction, whereas the forcing 1♠ bid will still leave opener needing to make some awkward bid in a later round to show strength. Losing one level of bidding to establish a game force isn't necessarily even a loss.

 

Of course, I suppose the 2♠ rebid can no longer be used for artificial purposes. But this seems like a small loss (not to mention relatively nonstandard).

[the hog]

Where it will cost is in constructive bidding, in that the jump to 2S takes up a lot of room.

Kokish's comments aside, I would not respond with 0 points and some number of Hearts for example. There is a big difference between philosophy on this side of the world. I honestly know of NO experts here who respond with 0 points, and the logic behind doing so still escapes me.

 

When you say "forcing to what?", Mike, it is a one round force at least. Do you truly expect to buy the contract in 1S even if that might be the best spot? Also don't forget that most experts here would open 1C and rebid 1NT over 1H with say a xxxx xxx xxx xxx shape, and not 1S. The rationale behind this is to treat a balanced hand as a balanced hand. To bid 2 suits shows 9+ cards in those suits , thus the sequence 1C 1H 1S shows a 4xx5 shape - VERY rarely 4xx4. Playing this style, it means that it is far more logical for 1S to be forcing - responder would give preference to 2C rather than pass 1S holding say a 3442 shape.

[awm]

My observations have been that while Walsh style responses enjoy a slight majority of expert followers over up-the-line bidding, a significant percentage of Walsh bidders will still bid 1♠ over 1m-1♥ on a balanced hand. I'd say more than half the expert community bids 1♠ on 4(23)4 after 1♣-1♥ -- your observations may differ but in any case these observations (from any of us) are more conjecture than backed up by solid evidence.

 

There are many advantages to bidding a non-forcing 1♠ with spades. It helps substantially in partscore bidding, in that:

 

(1) You get to play 1♠ instead of 1NT or 2NT or 2♣, when it's right.

(2) You find the 4-4 spade fit (if any) when responder is less than invitational.

 

Of course, this is a bigger deal at matchpoints, and I know the textbook response "matchpoints is not real bridge." While I dispute that premise, I'd also point out that rebidding 1♠ allows you to right-side 3NT, or avoid 3NT, when there's an issue with the other minor. This sort of thing can swing a lot of imps. And it's not going to greatly effect your slam bidding, since there's plenty of space over 1♠ to relay out opener's full shape regardless of whether 4(23)4 and 4333 patterns are included.

 

What about the 2♠ rebid? Well certainly you're a level higher, but consider an auction like:

 

1♣ - 1♥; 1♠ (forcing) - 1NT

 

At this point opener wants to force to game. How do we do this? Presumably 2♣ is a 4-6, 2♦ shows a 4045? 2♥ would show extras but be non-forcing? 2♠ shows a 5-6? 2NT non-forcing invite? 3♣ non-forcing invite? Seems like opener needs to do some jumping around here to establish a game force: perhaps 3♦ shows game values with concern about diamonds and 3♥ shows 4315-ish game force? Are we really better off here than after 1♣-1♥; 2♠-2NT-3♦/♥?

[HeartA]

I am really surprised to see so many "experts" here chose to rebid S (1S or 2S) while ignoring 8-card bag. You can't afford to shorten your trump (assume S) if C suit can't setup. And you can't afford to shorten trump if you need to run your C suit. Unless pd has 5-card S, in which case she would respond 1S, I will completely ignore the S suit no matter how good it is.