MickyB Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 [hv=d=n&v=b&s=skj98653h8742dc43]133|100|Scoring: IMP1♠-(X)-?5 card majors, in case you doubted that.Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further?[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I'll add my hand (the take-out doubler's partner) once we've had a few replies.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vang Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I suspect 4S will be a pretty popular choice. anyway, it's mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 4♠, followed by 5♠ if pard tries to double them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Lead-direction 2♦? :huh: Really I think this is a 'how many ♠s' question, and my stab at the answer is ... 6. It might be a good sacrifice against their making slam. It might provoke them into bidding a non-making grand. It might keep them out of a making grand. It might elicit a phantom sacrifice. It might make. Actually, the last is quite significant. If I bid 4 or 5♠ and it goes all pass, I will be worried about having missed a laydown slam. 6♠ might be wrong ... but it has so many ways to go right. 7420 is a lot better than 7222 here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Hand Evalaution Police!!!!!!!!! 4S. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 4 Diamond as a splinter.If they compete further, I will bid 4 or5 and hope that my pd is on lead, if they buy the contract in aynthing but diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Hi, 4S, if they compete I will bid spades, I wont sell out below 5Sand will bid 6S, if partner did havea chance to hit their 6 levelcontract but passes. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Interesting that so many people just bid 4♠ on these cards. This would have made life much easier for me, who held: [hv=s=sh10xdjt9xxxck109xx]133|100|[/hv] I had an easy 4NT bid over 4♠. Over 6♠, I had no idea what to do, and was completely guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 At the table, I considered 5♠ and 6♠ before settling on the latter, on the basis that they would probably bid over 5♠ and I'd then want to bid 6♠, so I'd make things a bit harder for them now - rule out the chance of them finding a grand and try to get them to make the wrong decision with regards to doubling. Maybe I overestimated the chance of them bidding over 5♠. To be honest, I can't ever see them defending 4♠ so I don't like that much, when one of the opponents competes over 4♠ I think the other will happily compete over 5♠. Well, with Mark's hand you are never bidding over 6♠, and always bidding over 4♠. I guess the most interesting question is what to do over 5♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 At the table, I considered 5♠ and 6♠ before settling on the latter, on the basis that they would probably bid over 5♠ and I'd then want to bid 6♠, so I'd make things a bit harder for them now - rule out the chance of them finding a grand and try to get them to make the wrong decision with regards to doubling. Maybe I overestimated the chance of them bidding over 5♠. To be honest, I can't ever see them defending 4♠ so I don't like that much, when one of the opponents competes over 4♠ I think the other will happily compete over 5♠. Well, with Mark's hand you are never bidding over 6♠, and always bidding over 4♠. I guess the most interesting question is what to do over 5♠? The main problem with 6S is, that they dont need to guess anymore, they just need to dbl. Maybe 7 is on, but that is a pure guess, and quite unlikely anyway, and it usually pays to take the money. With the given hand (oppossite the takeout dbl) I will pass and partner will dbl. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: You may convince me, that 5S is a better bid than 4S,but than, ... sometimes we are able to buy the contract in 4S, they have not always a 5-5 hand, and sometimes partneris able to make a strength showing dbl of 4NT and has 4 tricksin his own jhand against any 5 level contrat they may choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP ♠ KJ98653 ♥ 8742 ♦ [space] ♣ 43 1♠-(X)-?5 card majors, in case you doubted that.Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further? 4♠ is wrong because: (1) you are sure it is right for the opps to bid over 4♠(2) under no circumstance will you sell to 5x(3) you are very confident that 5♠X will be a good score The same criteria are not true a level higher, so 6♠ seems overexuberant. Therefore the right bid is 5♠. -Noble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_c Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 I like 5♠ personally. I wouldn't bid six, because no matter how many spades you have, with partner holding an opening hand there's going to be a fair chance that opps can't make slam. Though admittedly the full hand doesn't do much to support this point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 When considering preemption, there is a cardinal rule: a rule that can be expressd in two ways: 1) bid as high as is realistic as soon as possible... never preempt and then bid again, or 2) make the opps make the last guess. If you bid 4♠, you will be very uncomfortable if the opps bid 5minor... you will want to bid again... and in wanting to bid again, you are making the last guess. So 4♠ is inadequate. OTOH, there is no reason to assume that the opps are cold for 12 tricks... partner did open, and he has to have cards outside of ♠.... 6♠ forces good opps to double, unless LHO has a true freak, in which case nothing we do will matter much. There is far too much chance that the opps cannot make slam for us to force them to double, rather than to guess. 5♠ is just right.... we are probably at the right level for our side, and the opps now have to guess: we will be passing whatever they bid.... their guess will be the last one on this hand. If we were at favourable, I would have bid 5♦.... natural and to play.... down 10 undoubled would not be a first for me, nor even the most I have gone down undoubled.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 4♠ is wrong because: (1) you are sure it is right for the opps to bid over 4♠(2) under no circumstance will you sell to 5x(3) you are very confident that 5♠X will be a good score (1) But that doesn't mean they WILL bid over 4♠, does it?(2) And what's the problem with that?(3) I'm even more confident that 4♠X will be a good score. Thus, I find nothing wrong with 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 mikeh, it's true that 5♠ is the law bid. But the law isn't always correct and in my experience 4♠ often buys the pot. Especially if pard has a med-max hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 [hv=d=n&v=b&s=skj98653h8742dc43]133|100|Scoring: IMP1♠-(X)-?5 card majors, in case you doubted that.Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further?[/hv] Its between 5 and 6S. I am a 6 spade bidder on grounds:a. we might make slamb. they might make slamc. I can't easily find out if either a or b is trued. We are unlikely to go down more than 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 mikeh, it's true that 5♠ is the law bid. But the law isn't always correct and in my experience 4♠ often buys the pot. Especially if pard has a med-max hand. I like the LOTT, but I don't use it on this type of hand... we simply lack the requisite information as to total trumps, plus the LOTT breaks down on freaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Again If I do not bid a direct 5S on this hand then when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP ♠ KJ98653 ♥ 8742 ♦ [space] ♣ 43 1♠-(X)-?5 card majors, in case you doubted that.Edit:What is your plan if the opps compete further? So for the people that bid 5♠: what would you do if LHO bid (and it went pass pass) (1) 6♣(2) 6♦(3) 6♥ me: 1,3: double 2: pass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 If I started with 5♠, I'd be tempted to bid 6♠ over 6♦. If I was going to be on lead to 6♣ I'd pass it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 If pard is on lead it may be worth a shot to x 6c or 6H and hope we can beat it on a D lead. I do not understand bidding 6s, why bid 5s, make the opp guess, and then bid 6s after they guess? I could understand a direct 6S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 In my post advocating 5♠, I thought I had made it clear that I was not planning on bidding again: I have made them make the last guess. However, if they have bid 6♣ I will risk a lightner double... partner will almost certainly have the right red shape to be able to lead a ♦. I would also double 6♥, altho that will be less clear: partner might well be 5=0=4=4 in that event, given my xxxx in ♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'd bid 6♠ having previous bid 5♠ because when they bid 6♦ and pard doesn't double, I think they've guessed correctly. It's not an attractive way to bid, but it certainly has its advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 When given this problem I bid 5♠ and passed any slam they bid. If they guessed correctly, well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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