Long Long Spades - Got nowhere

[KamalK]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s10h109843dq8763ca10&w=s3haq76dak2ckq875&e=skhj52dj10954cj963&s=saqj9876542hkdc42]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

How to bid this hand?

 

Bidding went :

 

p-p-2♣-p

2♦-p-2♠-p

2NT-p-3♣-p

3NT-p-4♦-p

4♥-p-4NT-p-p-p

 

The partnership didnt play in Spades! They played 4NT!!

 

Can you pls tell :

 

1. How does one bid these 10-card suits?

 

2. How to tell partner you have a long suit?

 

3. Try for Grand or settle for 4?

 

4. How should the bidding have gone?

 

All at table were confused ;)

 

My first posting here so pardon any errors please. Not familiar with software :)

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Kamal

[P_Marlowe]

1) open 4S, if they interfere, bid spades

2) repeat bidding spades

3) partner is a passed hand, try to construct

hands with which grand is great

=> You need AK in clubs, A of hearts

and 2 spades, pretty specific

For a small slam, you still need partner

to hold 2 of the 3 above mentioned cards

still pretty specific

=> Keep it simple and bid 4S

4) see 1)

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[paulg]

Welcome Kamal - your post was excellent.

 

Most of us have problems bidding 7-card suits so it is not surprising that there are no methods for handling 10-card suits! I don't know the precise odds but the chances of holding another one are very very small.

 

Marlowe identifies the key point of how high to bid - partner needs specific cards and that is generally a warning sign - it's only the experts that find their partners with specific cards, for the rest of us partner always holds rubbish.

 

Generally I would not open a hand like this with 2♣ but focus on the spades. Opposite a passed hand I would open 4♠.

 

If partner had not passed then I might open 1♠ - the hand is not getting passed out as I only have 10 points and it might give us more space to see if partner does have those specific cards. The danger with 1♠ is that it gives the opposition space to find a red suit fit, when 4♠ might shut them out, so you will see a difference of opinion here (and the 4♠ bidders probably in the majority).

 

Keep posting,

 

Paul

[KamalK]

Thanks Marlowe and Paul for replies. Very useful.

 

And thanks Paul for your encouragement. Yes one comes across hands which confuse me.....but now I will certainly keep posting for comments from all Experts.

 

BTW, I was kibbing at the BIL when this hand was being played ;)

 

Regards

 

Kamal

[AdiBichea]

hi,

first of all 2♣ oppening is wrong, of course this hand has 9 triks.. but if you look again at system in front of 2♣ oppening is that:

2♣ = 23+HCP any distribution or 17+HCP and 9+winner triks, i am right?

 

with this hand i open with 4♠!

[whereagles]

I like opening 5♠, but only if you're sure pard won't play you for something like

 

QJT9xxx

AKQ

AK

A

[SoTired]

1) This is a 4S opener, not 2C. If the bidding goes 2C (5C) X or 2C (5D) X, opener would not have a clue what to do. Reserve the 2C bid for hands with both tricks, defense and strength. If you think this hand is too strong for 4S, then open it 1S.... There is no chance it will get passed out there.

 

2) I have no clue what 3C was. What was wrong with bidding 3S. That sets the trump suit.

 

3) I have no clue what 4D was. What was opener's goal? Deliberately confusing the auction? Slam bidding is tough enough without making partner guess what your bids mean.

 

4) Opener could bid 3S over 2D, setting the trump suit and demanding an ace q-bid.

 

5) So opener then bid the most ambiguous 4N I have ever seen. Who knows what that was.

[jillybean]

Hi Kamal, welcome to the forum.

 

Definitely a 4♠ opener - try it, you'll love it :)

 

jb

[helene_t]

I think I would have opened 5♠ although 4♠ would probably buy the contract at this particular layout. And as Whereagles says, it is something that should be agreed with partner. Without specific agreements it's a clear 4♠ opening.

 

If you do open 2♣, a 4♠ rebid is the way to tell partner that you have a very long (usually 8-card) suit and less high cards than a typical 2♣ opener.

[barmar]

No one has really explained WHY you shouldn't open this with 2♣, so I'll step in with this.

 

A 2♣ opener should show more than just a hand close to making game. It also needs to have some defensive tricks. When you have a hand like South's, there's a good chance that there's also some wild distribution elsewhere around the table, so the opponents are likely to start preempting. Your partner is going to be expecting a very strong hand from you, so he'll likely try to double them. But with a freak like yours, you'd be lucky to take more than 1 trick on defense.

 

A rule of thumb I like is that you should have at least as many defensive tricks as losers to open 2♣ (unless you have a balanced hand that's planning on rebidding 2NT). Your hand has 4 losers but only about 1 defensive trick, so it's not appropriate.

[bid_em_up]

But with a freak like yours, you'd be lucky to take more than 1 trick on defense.

Ummm, with this hand, you will be lucky to take even one trick on defense. :)

[neilkaz]

I think I would have opened 5♠ although 4♠ would probably buy the contract at this particular layout. And as Whereagles says, it is something that should be agreed with partner. Without specific agreements it's a clear 4♠ opening.

 

If you do open 2♣, a 4♠ rebid is the way to tell partner that you have a very long (usually 8-card) suit and less high cards than a typical 2♣ opener.

My understanding is that a 5♥ or 5♠ opening is supposed to ask PD to bid 6 with the Ace or King of trumps and 7 with both. Thus a 5M opening is a very rare bird that has 11 tricks with a good trump suit like QJTxxx(xx).

 

The hand in question needs quite a bit of luck from a passed PD to make a small slam. I'd just open it 4♠ since it's quite likely the the unpassed opp may have quite a good hand and be able to enter the auction at a low level.

 

If opening 2♣, yes a 4♠ rebid shows a very long suit and lack of high cards. But I really don't care for 2♣ openings with a hand that may only take one trick on defence.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[KamalK]

Hi All,

 

Thanks you for your valuable comments and useful suggestions. What comes out clearly from the discussion is :

 

USE JUDGEMENT AND OPEN THE SUIT AT SOME LEVEL. IF YOU DO NOT "SHOW" THE SUIT, YOU WILL NEVER "PLAY" IN THE SUIT! :))

 

Regards to all,

 

Kamal