Best defense to Multi?

[awm]

I'm looking for a good defense to multi. Obviously a complete defense needs to specify more than what's in the poll, but I don't want to make the options way too long. The ACBL defenses are available on their website, the Granovetter defense is described in a recent book (although there wasn't much more explanation than given above). The last is my current defense, which basically corresponds to "pretend opps opened in spades, take advantage of the 2s "cue"

 

If it matters, assume the 2♦ multi has no strong meaning (i.e. just weak two in a major) as this variety is much more popular in the fields I tend to play in.

[pclayton]

http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/multi.htm

 

This is Dixon, which I really like. 2♥ and 2♠ are basically TO X's of the other major. We don't play that 2♥/2♠ guarantee 4 in the other major though.

 

With my regular partners - we tweak it a little: double shows either a single-suited major or the big hands.

 

Many multi defenses have a way to show a 13-15 balanced hand, but I've never seen the need to over a weak 2.

[hrothgar]

I agree with Phil about Dixon...

Its long been my favorite defense against a multi

 

For what its worth, I suspect that the quality of defenses are, to some extent, a function of the frequency with which a convention is used. I'd expect that the Europeans who play against multi 2♦ openings quite frequently are likely to have spent more time and effort developing good defenses than North Americans who don't see the opening that often.

 

There might be some exceptions... Its entirely posisble that some North American pro has spent enough time studying the opening that he/she has a phenomenal defense available. Me, I prefer to play the odds

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I play the 2nd listed, which is the already

mentioned Dixon defence.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Echognome]

Only twist on Dixon that we play is that 2♥ and 2♠ show 5 card suits (not 4441 type hands). One of the England woman's players was telling us that their coaches ran simulations on the hands and that having a 5 card suit for overcalling was much more effective. You can always double back in on the 4441 type hands if need be.

 

I used to play multi over multi (similar to what Phil is saying), but I'm slightly happier with Dixon. They are both fine of course.

[MickyB]

Yes, it seems that ACBL defence 2 just uses a "Dixon Double" rather than the full method. I too prefer this, forcing yourself to pass initially on the routine 2M overcalls seems fairly undesirable to me.

 

I've heard it said that in Dixon, passing then doubling is for penalties because you would act initially with a takeout double - I don't know if this is "standard" or even better, I'd be inclined to play it as a light takeout.

 

Phil - over a weak two, there isn't a safe way to show 13-14(15) bal. To cope with this many protect light, but you will still miss some games, especially when you both have three cards in the suit opened. That you can show this hand easily over a multi is a disadvantage of the method.

 

I've not tried any other methods, but just using a double as takeout of spades sounds reasonable. Double as either major sounds problematic - I'd be tempted to play 2♦-X-2M as "pass unless doubled, in which case correct to your suit if you need to".

[hrothgar]

Only twist on Dixon that we play is that 2♥ and 2♠ show 5 card suits (not 4441 type hands). One of the England woman's players was telling us that their coaches ran simulations on the hands and that having a 5 card suit for overcalling was much more effective. You can always double back in on the 4441 type hands if need be.

Might be interesting to split the difference...

 

Use 2♥ to promise hearts / 2♠ to promise spades, but relax the suit quality requirements. The bid is based either on a weak takeout double (4432 patterns are fine) or a bad 5 card suit.

 

Use an immediate double similar to multi over multi, but promise a good suit

Jumps to 3M show strong hands...

 

Pass followed by double shows a strong hand

[EricK]

For anything concerning weak 2 bids Chris Ryall's page is a useful start.

 

Here is his page on defenses to the multi 2♦

http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/defend-multi-2d.htm

 

He has a special page related to his multi vs multi defense which links from there.

[MickyB]

Pass followed by double shows a strong hand

What about passing followed by being on lead? :)

[Gerben42]

Ah that's easy. 4th best of longest and strongest.

;)

 

Anyway, do you know what this sequence means?

 

N: 2♦ (Multi)

E: Double

S: Redouble (wants to play 2♦XX)

W: Pass

 

Better not get that one wrong!

 

Also this one playing Dixon:

 

2♦ Dbl 2M Dbl

 

a ) To play when partner has a weak notrump

b ) Take out of the suit when partner has a weak notrump

 

N: 2♦ (Multi)

E: 2♥ (TO of ♠)

S: Pass

W: 2♠

 

What kind of hand does that show?

 

a ) Sorry partner, I have a lot of ♠ I think you hit their suit

b ) Cuebid

 

Have fun all...

Of course, Multi is so common that by now it should be easy to defend, right?

[inquiry]

I really, really like a defense called multi-versus-multi.

 

2♦-?

• dbl = multi level bid, either,
  • opening hand 5+ ♥
    
  • opening hand 5+♠
    
  • balanced 20 to 22 hcp, stopper in both majors
    
  • 18+ any three suiter
    

  [*]2♥ strong balanced

  [*]2♠ transfer to 3♣, opening hand type values

  [*]2NT - transfer to 3♦, opening type hand

  [*]3♣/3♦ = preemptive

  [*]3♥/3♠ = major/minor two suiter

  [*]3NT = balanced hand too strong for double or 2♥

Like everything else, Chris Ryall has details on this and follow up auctions on his webpage at www.cavendish.demon.co.uk

[mikeh]

While I lack the experience of many Europeans, I have played some tough bridge against multi and used it in one partnership for several years.

 

My objection to Dixon is that using 2♥/♠ as, essentially, takeout doubles of the other major leads to issues as to how forcing the bid is (it isn't actually forcing at all) and just what does responder do with different levels of hands... is 2♠ by partner, after a 2♥ overcall a cue (presumably not.. should be natural), is 2N lebensohl... presumably yes, what is the biggest hand responder can hold and pass, what does 3m mean by responder... etc. Of course some of these issues arise in any structure.

 

My preference is:

 

2♥ t.o. of ♥... can be done with a wide variety of hands, from minumum takeout doubles to powerhouses, because it will almost NEVER be passed

 

2♠ t.o. of ♠

 

In both cases, lebensohl applies

 

 

Double = 13-15 balanced or 18+ any

 

2N = 15-18, natural

 

3suit: natural

 

4♣/♦ roman... altho the major remains to be discovered which can make for an interesting auction.... altho one could simplify this bid (and lose half its use) by agreeing that, for example, it is always the minor and ♥. There is some argument for using 3N as one major and a minor and 4m as that minor and the other major...all hands that want to bid 3N start with double... but have not tried that yet... just thought of it actually..so it is probably flawed ;)

[inquiry]

BTW, the July 2nd issue of The PressBox, one of homebase clubs two newsletters, has an article on Multi-2D aimed more at people who are exposed to it than for people wanting to learn how to play it. This article introduces a lot of different defences (including a natural defense, the ACBL recommended defense, Dixon, Kleinman defense, and a transfer defense), it also has a hyperlink to a Bridgeguy article on defense to multi-2D. Sadly the author was not insightful enough to include multi-versus-multi in this article.

 

The PressBox is a PDF, this one is 13 pages long (the multi article is about 3 of them), so you will need adobe reader. The file is also a bit more than a megabyte so on dial up it might take a few minutes to download.

[cherdano]

I really like the double as 13-15 balanced. It puts pressure off partner to pre-balance when you pass. It is quite a frequent hand type, and when you do use the double, partner is very well placed. He can go to 3m competitively (Lebensohl applies), when over a pass he could either lose IMPs by letting opps play 2M, or by getting us too high with a 3m bid; or he can easily explore for the best game.

 

I have never tried Dixon, but I don't understand the point of it. Not only is it nice to be able to show a 5-card major at the two-level (certainly I don't like jumping to 3M with 5-card suits), also it is easier to show the takeout double hand after passing first (make a takeout double later), than to show the natural 2M overcall after passing first. Do you guys think takeout doubles are that much more frequent?

 

Arend

[keylime]

I use this (Granovetter):

 

X = all general value hands unable to express themselves

2H = a good club overcall

2S = a good diamond overcall

2NT = natural (system/keri on)

3C/D = a WEAK, natural call

3H/S = natural invite to game

3NT = very rare, normally based on an Acol 3NT style hand with running minor.

[Adebisi]

Very easy and effective just DBL T/O as after weak 2s opening, rest is nat exc. 4C and 4D are 55 H+minor.

[Free]

I really, really like a defense called multi-versus-multi.

 

2♦-?

• dbl = multi level bid, either,
  • opening hand 5+ ♥
    
  • opening hand 5+♠
    
  • balanced 20 to 22 hcp, stopper in both majors
    
  • 18+ any three suiter
    

  [*]2♥ strong balanced

  [*]2♠ transfer to 3♣, opening hand type values

  [*]2NT - transfer to 3♦, opening type hand

  [*]3♣/3♦ = preemptive

  [*]3♥/3♠ = major/minor two suiter

  [*]3NT = balanced hand too strong for double or 2♥

Like everything else, Chris Ryall has details on this and follow up auctions on his webpage at www.cavendish.demon.co.uk

I also play it, I like :)

[1eyedjack]

I quite like to play double to show a takeout of (wait for it ...) Diamonds.

 

The trouble with the nebulous double (that is non-specific as to Diamond holding) is that it is pretty standard these days for responder (to the multi) to pass immediately over the double to suggest playing in 2D doubled. This leaves advancer in a quandary whether to bid or to try for defending 2D doubled.

 

The issue is somewhat contingent on the options contained in the multi. In competitions where licensing regime is fairly relaxed I include an intermediate (approx 12-16 pts) 4-1-4-4 hand (stiff Heart) in the 2D opener (other 4441 hands in range being opened 2H). This makes it rather more frequent that opener has the non-weak-2 hand type, and responder will routinely pass a double with 4 card Diamond suit and sometimes with 3. If the double just shows a random balanced hand against this method then the strain on advancer is increased.

[the hog]

This question is impossible to answer uness you specify what type of Multi.

[whereagles]

Most systems presented are playable over the multi. What one should really discuss is how 4th seat bids after 3rd bids 2♥/♠, e.g.

 

(2♦) dbl (2♠) ??

 

regardless of what dbl shows, it should be clear for doubler what dbl, 2NT, 3m or 3M mean.

[inquiry]

This question is impossible to answer uness you specify what type of Multi.

Not necessarily. The multi-versus-multi works well against them. For instance, since 2Dx showed a major (most likely, or very strong balance or strong 4441), if responder passes, partner only passes 2Dx with a diamond stack. If responder bids 2h or 2s (pass correct), advancer can double for takeout which overcaller can pass if that is his suit.

[Trinidad]

My favorite Multi-defense:

Dbl: Takeout of hearts or a hand too strong for other action.

2♥: Takeout of spades.

2♠/3♣♦♥: Natural

2NT: 15-17(18) BAL

3NT/4♥♠/5♣♦: To play

3♠: Spades and a minor, GF

4♣♦: The minor and hearts, GF

4NT: Pick a minor

 

Thus, we have:

o two takeout bids. One for a (presumed) weak two in hearts and one for a (presumed) weak two in spades.

o Natural suit overcalls and a natural 2NT overcall

o Natural jumps to game

o A "Leaping Michaels" type bid for strong Major+minor two suiters and 4NT for both minors

 

We do not have a bid for a balanced 12-14 count (other than that e.g. a 4234 hand is sold as a takeout of hearts). I do not feel I miss it.

 

Most systems presented are playable over the multi. What one should really discuss is how 4th seat bids after 3rd bids 2♥/♠, e.g.

 

(2♦) dbl (2♠) ??

 

regardless of what dbl shows, it should be clear for doubler what dbl, 2NT, 3m or 3M mean.

 

With my favorite defense the Dbl has already defined that we have the spade suit, so this is not a problem. But suppose the auction started: (2♦)-Pass-(2♠). Then I treat the auction as if it started: (Pass)-Pass-(2♠ {weak two in spades})-??. The reason is that I get another turn to bid if the opposition has a weak two in hearts, but not if they had a weak two in spades. In theory, this leaves me vulnerable to a psychic pass of 2♠, but, in practice, I have never had that problem.

 

Rik

[ewj]

I really like the double as 13-15 balanced. It puts pressure off partner to pre-balance when you pass. It is quite a frequent hand type, and when you do use the double, partner is very well placed. He can go to 3m competitively (Lebensohl applies), when over a pass he could either lose IMPs by letting opps play 2M, or by getting us too high with a 3m bid; or he can easily explore for the best game.

 

I have never tried Dixon, but I don't understand the point of it. Not only is it nice to be able to show a 5-card major at the two-level (certainly I don't like jumping to 3M with 5-card suits), also it is easier to show the takeout double hand after passing first (make a takeout double later), than to show the natural 2M overcall after passing first. Do you guys think takeout doubles are that much more frequent?

 

Arend

I like that defence too...but I've always been worried about the auction going...(2D)-Pass [having take out of spades]-(3S), passed round to you and you ending up missing a game, being unable to make a take out double at this level.

 

Also, have people seen the multi opener having spades and passing the 2H response before? How do you cope with that :/? Partner might have a 14 count with 4 hearts and you the same.

[arrows]

multi against multi

 

X: opening hand with EITHER major.

2H: a strong notrump

2S/2N: tranfer to minor, good minor overcall (14+ HCP?)

3C/3D: natural, light constructive.

3H/3S: natural strong one suiter.

3N: to play

4C/4D: leaping michael, the minor and major, 3.5-4.5 losers.

 

With 12-14 balanced, pass first see what happens.

 

rumor has it if you play multi against multi, opps will stop playing multi :)

[glen]

The best defense is Meckstroth against Multi. When opponents pre-alert Multi, pull out:

We found that multi allowed the opponents too many direct and delayed actions and that weak 2's were far more effective in the long run. - Jeff Meckstroth

Hopefully they switch on the spot.

 

This quote is from:

What Would Jeff Meckstroth Do?

 

The site says "to many" at this time, corrected above.