Apollo81 Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 ♠Qx♥AKQx♦K108xx♣xx ♠Kxx♥xxxx♦Ax♣Axxx white IMPs 1♦-(pass)-1♥-(2♠)3♥-(all pass) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 That one is a good example of why FTL working points are hard to count. If both players count their spade honors as working points (which in this case they are), game might be reached. Otherwise not. In any case, I don't think anyone's at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Hi, Nobodys fault. The main problem is a system / style issue. How weak can your openers be? Is 3H by opener just a courtesy raise or does it show a betterthan min opener. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Depends on your agreements... If north has a good 4 card support bid (2NT for example) then North is clearly in fault since 3♥ is just competitive in that case. Otherwise it's nobody's fault. So I guess 'mostly opener' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 As often seems to happen I am really shocked by these answers. 1) Using FTL seems pretty easy on this one I bid 4H13+1-4=10 tricks+1=22 working hcp seems pretty easy. -4=estimated 2 shortest suits 2) LTC Partner opened and I got 7.5 losers I just bid 4H at imps 3) Playing good/bad 2nt very easy then since 3H shows a big hand, in fact more than this so.....I guess we are not playing that convention. 4) Having my aces and kings outside of my trump suit is a huge plus...having 4 small trumps is a minus but is sounds like a trump finesse is on. 5) I can only assume the passers really assume partner opens on junk and rebids 3H on less. But if we really play that cannot North just pass and wait for partner to reopen with a game force hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 It can't be North; 3♥ is a bit of an overbid with the questionable Q♠. I think passing 3♥ is a deep position with responder. I can see the weak trump and the questionable ♠K, but whats wrong with 3N? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 While I have some sympathy for S's decision, it strikes me as unilateral. Nobody held a gun to N's head to make him bid 3♥... he had an easy pass with any minimum, even with 4 card support, because S will bid again any time the hand belongs to NS. So N's 3♥ bid showed extras. In that context, for South to downgrade his hand because of poor trump and a possibly vulnerable ♠K, is too much of a mastermind decision. I would have more sympathy for S were RHO to be on lead, but the ♠K has some value even if LHO holds AQJ..... because LHO has to find some other lead. And the two aces are huge... S has to bid game, and I don't think it is close. Please note that I don't use FTL or LOTT or Zar or any other metric: I use the following: partner showed 4 trump, with extra values, willing to play 3♥ opposite a hand far worse than I hold, and I have a near-opener... bid game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Responder has to take the blame for not reaching game. Opener overbid his hand (so it's his fault when the contract goes down) and responder has shown a minimum of 6HCP up to now. If one should bid game with responders hand is a different question ....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Oops. I voted for "mostly responder" before I saw "responder". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 :) This question has a rather clearcut answer, imo. Responder took an extreme position that didn't work out. He wants to be in game opposite any 'real' 3♥ bid, and also opposite many 'pushy' raises (like the actual hand) as well. This leaves only a small minority of the possible 3♥ bids that will validate a pass. The spade king and weak hearts argue for 3NT which will be corrected to 4♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 The methods may take some of the blame, so I chose "mostly responder." Certainly if opener's 3♥ bid implies more than a minimum, south should go on to game. Sure, there are four weak trumps and a possibly misplaced ♠K, but there are also two aces and a doubleton. And sometimes the spade king is a useful card too (like here). Of course there are questions about how much 3♥ shows, since 2NT or double could be used on some hands to distinguish good competitive hands from bad ones. Without discussion the 3♥ bid is a little murky and I see a lot of people bid this way on balanced 12-counts (which would make south's pass a little more palatable). Still I think the standard is that 3♥ shows extras and that most of the optional treatments actually concur with this (using 2NT...3♥ for example to show a minimum competitive raise). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 For us point counters it seems normal to play it as 2.5 hearts at a minimumnormal 2h=12 pts? normal 3h=16pts?so this nonnormal 3h=2.5 hearts=14 working hcp and no stiff or void? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 For us point counters it seems normal to play it as 2.5 hearts at a minimumnormal 2h=12 pts? normal 3h=16pts?so this nonnormal 3h=2.5 hearts=14 working hcp and no stiff or void? Reasonable; but I'd base it more on LTC than points. I'd put a 3H hand in the 6.0 to 6.5 loser range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow23 Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 I think that 3♥ hearts is very encouraging...Partner is inviting to game if maxed hand...11 hcp opposite p's fit = limit raise..which more often than not belongs in game.. B) Not a time to get cold feet...Go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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