Your call

[Apollo81]

♠ xxx

♥ Kxx

♦ AQxxx

♣ Qx

 

unfavorable, IMPs

 

(1NT*)-pass-(2♦**)-3♣

(pass)-????

 

*) 10-13

**) game forcing Stayman

[hrothgar]

♠ xxx

♥ Kxx

♦ AQxxx

♣ Qx

 

unfavorable, IMPs

 

(1NT*)-pass-(2♦**)-3♣

(pass)-????

 

*) 10-13

**) game forcing Stayman

they are in a game forcing auction without a fit...

 

I have lots of strength

Partner should be broke with a long semi-solid club suit

 

easiest pass I've ever seen

[inquiry]

Easiest pass every seen? Hardly. I would never pass here. No one smells a rat? Is 2♦ bidder a normal upstanding citizen?

 

I hold 11 hcp. Opener has, say 11 on average that is 22. The 2♦ bidder professes to hold 14 or 15 to force to game. That comes to 36. And our partnre is bidding 3♣ VUL versus not at imps? Not possible.

 

The 2♦ bidder has psyched. You can bid 3NT and be done with it, or you can bid 3♦ if this is forcing should you have grander schemes.

 

Now should your partner be both nuts (bidding with imaginary values) and 2♦ bidder be a person who would never, ever psyche, pass becomes a possibility. That is a quite a combo... a partner who bids crazy vul at imps versus non-vul, and an opponent who never psyches... Don't count on it.

[whereagles]

If I know LHO to be a joker, I might take that 2♦ as a psych. Otherwise I'll just trust him to be in a sane state of mind and pass 3♣.

 

Incidently, I'd be on the lookout if opener fields pard's psych. It could be opener has a natural bid over 3♣ and didn't want to do it, fearing pard has psyched. This is illegal in many jurisdictions.

[mikeh]

It seems to me that we have to consider Ben's suspicion that responder has psyched: altho this particular psyche seems ill-conceived for two reasons: 1) 4th seat may intervene and opener start doubling: a sequence from which there is little escape, and (more importantly) the presumably-intended pass of opener's rebid will let the cat out of the bag.... while more mundane psychic responses (2♣ or bid/transfer to a short major etc) give away far less.

 

It also seems to me that we can cater to both the psyche and the legitimate bid, unless our partner has completely lost his mind. We are going to deliver about 2-3 tricks more than he had any right to expect... so if he has some incredibly long ♣ suit and out, 4♣ x'd won't be a disaster against their presumed major suit game.

 

So bid 3N.

 

You passed the weak NT so you won't be holding a monster.... partner will know that 3N can't be for real...in the sense that you expect to make it against an obstructive 3♣... and will run with a weak hand and stick it out with a good one.

 

The beauty of this sequence is that it places a lot of pressure on opener, if responder has psyched. Responder's pass is presumably forcing, so if you are cold for 3N, the opps have some fine ethical issues to consider :lol:

[inquiry]

If I know LHO to be a joker, I might take that 2♦ as a psych. Otherwise I'll just trust him to be in a sane state of mind and pass 3♣.

 

Incidently, I'd be on the lookout if opener fields pard's psych. It could be opener has a natural bid over 3♣ and didn't want to do it, fearing pard has psyched. This is illegal in many jurisdictions.

If the 2♦ bidder is psyching (and here he almost certainly is), and if this partnership has used this psyche before (psyche game forcing values when not having it), then there could be problems. If this is the first time for such a psyche, not.

 

The 2♦ psyche is usually not very effective with weak balanced hand. For example, an auction that goes...

 

1N-P-2D-P

2H-P-P <<--- give the show away.

 

If you are going to psyche with this hand, it has to be a hand you plan on taking a sacrafice if the opponents were to bid to game. In fact, you ahve to go ahead and end up in the "save" you plan to take even if the oppnents never bid. Thus you ahve to be quite distributional yourself. Here 2♦ bidder is probably 5-5 or 6-5 in the majors (due to our diamond holding and partners obvious club legnth).

[pclayton]

I read recently that GF stayman isn't supposed to be psyched. Maybe it was Justin's blog.

 

I don't think JL is right on this however. I think the restriction is on strong artificial openings, not strong artificial responses, even if they are GF.

 

I'm worried about a psyche too, but I'm also worried about pard holding AQ-7th and out.

 

I would agree with a strong hand that pard should pass 2♦ initially.

[inquiry]

I'm worried about a psyche too, but I'm also worried about pard holding AQ-7th and out.

That should be a concern or you get a new deal.. .since the deck should have only one queen of clubs.

[Apollo81]

I have to say I am disappointed with these answers so far. I think it's ridiculous to assume partner has a bad hand here when he comes in at the 3 level at unfavorable into a game forcing auction.

 

BTW why is responder here psyching if he has, say a 6520 hand with few HCP? Maybe he wants to get to hearts when it's a 5-4 fit and spades otherwise? The partnership may have game values despite a minority of the HCP. I don't consider this a psyche.

 

Both sides may have a making game on any deal. Just because one side forces game doesn't mean the other side doesn't also have a making game.

 

Shame on anyone who passed here. Any of the bids mentioned here should get partner to bid your game. He has ♠x ♥x ♦KJxx ♣AK109xxx

[mikeh]

I have to say I am disappointed with these answers so far.  I think it's ridiculous to assume partner has a bad hand here when he comes in at the 3 level at unfavorable into a game forcing auction.

 

BTW why is responder here psyching if he has, say a 6520 hand with few HCP?  Maybe he wants to get to hearts when it's a 5-4 fit and spades otherwise?  The partnership may have game values despite a minority of the HCP.  I don't consider this a psyche.

 

Both sides may have a making game on any deal.  Just because one side forces game doesn't mean the other side doesn't also have a making game.

 

Shame on anyone who passed here.  Any of the bids mentioned here should get partner to bid your game.  He has ♠x ♥x ♦KJxx ♣AK109xxx

The opps hold a combined total of 18 hcp and opener showed 10-13 and you don't consider the 2♦ bid to be a psyche?????

 

Furthermore, if I held xx x xx AJ10xxxxx red v white I probably would bid 3♣ over 2♦... why pass and allow the opps to have a free run at a constructive auction?

 

Finally, I chose 3N as my two-way action over 3♣, allowing partner to pull with the weak, long ♣ hand and to pass if responder had psyched. You say that bidding would get me to game: well, if it went p-p-p, I'd be in game but I doubt that I will make it :) Of course, I may be getting some relief from the director... maybe he will change the result from 3N down 2 to 3N doubled down 2 :P

 

More likely, responder will be bidding, either 4M or 4♣ intending to bid 4M. Now, maybe S can/should/will bid 4N.... as a choice of minors, not intending to play 4N... and is that meaning clear, once the partnership has offered to play 3N?

 

All in all, I am disappointed with your disappontment B)

[willow23]

I would go with a pass...

 

No spade stopper; will dare not bid 3nt and 5♣looks a long way off...P has a wonderful dummy...

 

Shape is the key here; and I have none to offer partner B)

 

If he has 7♣..7+2=9 ..I would stick with the law here..

 

My p may have already counted me for some points when he made that 3♣ bid..

 

Something does smell fishy though...but I would procede with caution..

[whereagles]

Any of the bids mentioned here should get partner to bid your game. He has ♠x ♥x ♦KJxx ♣AK109xxx

What? Pard would never dare to disturb a 3NT bid by us and that goes a couple down on a spade lead. Better 3♣ +2 than 3NT -2, no?

[Apollo81]

Any of the bids mentioned here should get partner to bid your game.  He has ♠x ♥x ♦KJxx ♣AK109xxx

What? Pard would never dare to disturb a 3NT bid by us and that goes a couple down on a spade lead. Better 3♣ +2 than 3NT -2, no?

Right but LHO will clearly bid 4♠ with his 6-5 hand (which is cold) over 3NT, and then partner will bid 5♣.

[jdeegan]

:rolleyes: I hate to be a grouch, but this is not really a proper bidding poll problem. It smells like a possible psyche, and that's what you need to evaluate. You gotta be at the table, understand what kind of game you are in, and know something about your opponents.

[benlessard]

Watch out if you like to make these 2d psych. Many 2 barrels stayman system forbid opener to respond 3h or 3s with a maximum in that case it become a risk-free psych (psychics controls) wich is illegal under ACBL laws and probably WBF also.

[whereagles]

3M to show a max is usually a bad strategy, so, to forbid a 3M isn't psych control. It's good bridge.

[mycroft]

You might have to cater to another issue:

 

Responder has xx QT9xxx xxx xx.

Responder forgot they're playing 2-way opposite 10-13, and has transferred.

Or swap the red suits - responder forgot they're playing 2-way, and has bid 2D to play (as I do as a passed hand opposite my mini-NT).

 

Now, the same issue applies about opener "fielding" it, but in this auction I don't think there's any question. I opened 10-13 NT, partner made a random game force - note that 2D in this auction frequently does *not* promise anything but a game force, in fact, in my system the explanation is "game force, asking me to describe my hand - although he may have no interest in the answer." If someone interferes, as opener I am certainly *not* sticking my neck out with a 3M bid - I'll either hit 3C with clubs or pass and find out what partner's actually got - especially as I would rather he declare.

 

Michael.

[benlessard]

3M to show a max is usually a bad strategy, so, to forbid a 3M isn't psych control. It's good bridge.

 

 

 

i agree with you that to forbid 3M is good bridge (unless it show a very specific hand).

 

But most (experienced) director will forbid you to psych if you play an artificial method or convention that allow you to make risk-free psych.

 

And bidding 3clubs 2nt or 3d with a maximum and a 4 card major is an artificial method that allow some risk-free psych.

 

It doesnt matter if the method is or isnt designed for psych. If its artificial and allow you to make psych without risking your partner raising you then psyching become illegal.

 

Example

 

 

2h (W)---pass--- 2s (nat F)

 

 

 

and in your methods partner rarely raise you to 3S or 4S then you cant psych with the 2S bid.

 

 

ACBL rules

 

disallowed

 

2. Psyching of artificial or conventional opening bids and/or conventional responses thereto.

Psyching conventional suit responses, which are less than 2NT, to natural openings.

 

3. Psychic controls (Includes ANY partnership agreement which, if used in conjunction with a psychic call, makes allowance for that psych.)