x or pass at 5 level

[mike777]

Please assume standard beginner/intermediate versions/meanings of x and pass at 5 level.

 

MP unfav vul.

 

 

1c=(4h)=4s=(5h)

?

 

 

What hand types would pass show?

What hand types would x show?

 

To put it another way what is the typical expert but standard meaning I am trying to convey to partner with pass or x? In more detail how much defense am I showing with x or with pass. How much offense am I showing with x or pass?

 

Thank you in advance.

[jocdelevat]

hi my level b/i i play sayc

 

The auction is a tough one and questions tougher(if this word exist in english, I'm from Romania).

First thing is I played in a tourney with an advanced player( very conservative not a riski bid player) and was an auction similar to this so what I learn is to wait for his response(so I pass) because at mp and unfav vul an x will score more than our game with the points we have.

Second thing I red somewhere not sure if here in forum that most of the time better to let opponents play at 5 level(not sure this is corect).

 

Now answers:

I think pass will sugest partner to double for penalty

I do not clear understand the meaning of the double( no clue for me here)

 

best regards

jocdelevat

[DWM]

I assume the 4♥ bid is pre-emptive as they have many other ways to get there with a strong hand. Saying that, in the leagues I play in, the jump to 4♥covers a very wide type of hands.

 

When I have doubled hands like this in the past I have been forced to sit back and watch the opposition make 6+ tricks with cross ruffs and make their contract. Therefore I think that a double should have some element of control in ♥, or maybe 1st/2nd round controls in the minors and 2♥'s to shorten declarers/dummies trumps

 

Although a double does not rule out looking for slam I would expect a pard of mine who doubled to think we would be better off punishing them rather than playing in 5♠+. The double can show any strength of hand, but the stronger the hand the more likely that we are missing a slam so the bigger the penalty we need, therefore, the more defensive the hand has to be.

 

I think there are far too many type of hands to show with far too many bids (but isn't that the purpose of the pre-empt) so pass should be a minimum hand or intermediate with nothing else to say. This includes preferring to support spades to defending the hand.

 

Is this typically considered a forcing pass situation?

[mikeh]

The first point to accept is that the lack of bidding space means that you cannot always get a good result on these boards.

 

Thus you have to decide, as a matter of philosophy, which messages you will choose to send.

 

As opener, you will have several possible messages, depending on your hand type.

 

1) your hand says they are going down: you even have a sure trump trick and are short in partner's suit. You would like double to be a clear statement that partner must pass

 

2) your hand is such that you really don't have any firm idea whether your side should declare or defend: pass sends that message, and that is standard

 

3) your hand is so strong that you want to try for slam, but you have no way to show those values yet; you pass and then (if partner doubles) you pull the double: this is the standard method for this hand type

 

4) your hand is such that you definitely don't want to defend, but you have no real slam interest: you bid directly: once again, the standard approach

 

5) you have a bad hand with no fit for partner. You will often hold xx or Qx or such in the opp's suit. You have no particular reason to think the opps will go down, but you really don't want partner bidding unless he has a very unusual hand.

 

Possibilities 2 thru 4 are easy: either make a forcing pass or make a bid. It is hands 1 and 5 that are the problem.

 

Both are, in standard methods, handled by a double. The double, therefore, is usually treated NOT as a statement that the opps have made a mistake but as a warning to partner not to bid again without unusual values. This is necessary in order to preserve the integrity of the message sent by the forcing pass: "partner, I am willing to defend if you think it right, but I have some values that may be useful at the 5-level if you have more offence than the minimum amount promised by your bidding so far. Plus, I may actually have significant extras... but don't assume that for now."

 

This inevitably means that there will be a set of hands on which the opps will be cold and you will chalk up -850. This is what I meant by the opening statement in this post. Don't let those boards stop you from being consistent. Preempts work :D

 

BTW, the post about watching the opps crossruff is one reason why the standard lead against such auctions is a trump. The bidding, especially the double, suggests that the defenders probably have high card control of the side suits, such that there is rarely any reason to cash winners early... it is usually more useful to stop dummy from scoring a couple of ruffs.... dummy will often hold 3 card support for declarer and shortness: if you can lead trumps twice, you will usually be on your way to maximizing your result.