Jump Shifts Redux/ then slam?

[microcap]

A few weeks ago, I posted a hand with which I jump shifted. Most of you thought I wasn't strong enough.

 

In an attempt to further clarify, here is another one:

 

You hold: [hv=d=n&v=n&s=saqj98xhakdcq98xx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

After 1♠, partner bids 1NT. Do you jump shift or not?

 

There will be a followup to this later so tune back in... :blink:

[HeartA]

sure, I would.

[mike777]

2c I choose to not jump shift since we do not have a fit yet.

[Free]

Jump, I have a 2.5-3 loser hand, and chances of a fit are huge, and I have a new rebid available in case partner responds 3♦ over it, and ... :blink:

[keylime]

I'm a jumper here too.

[neilkaz]

This looks like a GF to me..so I jump 3C.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[mikeh]

not remotely close :blink:

 

this is an easy, easy 2♣ bid.

 

However, in fairness, I play a method in which 2♣ is rarely passed.... it only shows 2+... this enhances the meaning of 2♦, which promises 4+ and of a jump to 3♠ which promises a good suit as well as approximately 16 hcp or so. 2♣ followed by 3♠ shows the same playing strength as an immediate jump but a weaker suit.

 

I also play a form of BART.... in which responder's 2♦ over my 2♣ is artificial.

 

However, even without those agreements, and in casual Saturday night games, for example, most of the players don't know this stuff...I would have an easy 2♣ followed by an aggressive bid next time.

 

Will there be a next time? Almost certainly yes.

 

Is this a gf opposite a misfit... certainly not.... why cannot partner hold x xxx KQxxxx Jxx? Or void Jxxxx AQxxxx xx? or a million other hands.

 

 

This is a good hand.... it never fails to astonish me how many players feel they have to take charge of auctions whenever they hold a good hand. Bid 2♣ and learn something about how partner feels about the hand BEFORE taking charge.

 

Trust me, there are going to be far more hands on which the jump shift gets you into trouble than there are hands on which 2♣ fetches ppp and you missed a decent game.

[mike777]

I also play Bart here but I also expect partner to bid 1nt with:

 

 

Void....xxxxx....Axxxx....xxx or less!

 

1s=1nt

2c=2d!

2h!=p

 

 

The version of Bart I know partner will rebid 2H showing 2-3 hearts but not 3H and extra's and responder will pass.

[kenberg]

I bid 2C. Theoretically this can go wrong, but it seldom does. My guess is that partner will be bidding 2D. Maybe 2H. At any rate, when I hold two red cards I don't expect to play in 2C. Over 2D (by anyone) I will bid 3S. If it gets passed out in 2C and is cold for whatever, then I'm sorry. I have found it extremely reliable to expect hands like this not to be passed out at a low level, and after I bid 3S partner should be able to make an intelligent choice, including pass.

 

And this may be too high. Maybe 3C is high enough. Anyway, 3S is my call over 2D.

[neilkaz]

We have some really strong players telling me that this isn't good enough for GF so I'll have to take a longer look at it, since I feel it just qualifies. But then I don't tend to respond 1NT with 3 or 4 HCP of junk and often pass bad 5 HCP hands as well.

 

thx.. neilkaz ..

[bid_em_up]

This hand comes a lot closer to qualifying for the jump shift than the last one did. :)

 

Because the hand is 6-5, it has no side suit losers and the spade suit is AQJ98x, at the table, I would bid 3C, as I intend to play either 4S or 5C. I would prefer that the heart K to be in the club suit, but oh well, I cant always hold the perfect hand.

 

Although in some partnerships, I also play that 2C can be made on only two clubs, I would hate for partner to pass 2C holding:

 

x Qxxx Jxxx K10xx or similar

 

and I really dont think he can make another call on this holding.

 

Additionally, the form of scoring says vul @ imps, and I just hate missng vul games.

 

All of this adds up to a 3C bid for me.

[microcap]

LOL Bid_em_up.....I hate when people actually remember my old hands!

 

Anyway, this discussion can be continued, but at the table I was mindful of that last hand b.e.u. refers to and I merely bid 2♣. Who says I don't pay attention?

 

Rex now jumps to 3♠, showing 10-12 HCP with 3 card ♠ support. In case it matters, my 2♣ bid COULD be a catchall with only 3 cards---if it is only 3 cards, though, I will have 17+ HCP.

 

OK, we are clearly in the slam zone. How do I go about an intelligent exploration? Assume you have the normal tools to work with....

 

Thanks JW :)

[mike777]

LOL Bid_em_up.....I hate when people actually remember my old hands!

 

Anyway, this discussion can be continued, but at the table I was mindful of that last hand b.e.u. refers to and I merely bid 2♣. Who says I don't pay attention?

 

Rex now jumps to 3♠, showing 10-12 HCP with 3 card ♠ support. In case it matters, my 2♣ bid COULD be a catchall with only 3 cards---if it is only 3 cards, though, I will have 17+ HCP.

 

OK, we are clearly in the slam zone. How do I go about an intelligent exploration? Assume you have the normal tools to work with....

 

Thanks JW :)

4D planning on cuebidding 5H next. Hopefully pard will get the message I need a second round club cuebid.

 

Since partner has only 3s I do not expect him to have a stiff or void in clubs.

[mikeh]

freaks are tough to bid, and this is no exception.

 

For me, 4♦ is out... I almost never cue voids as my first cue (partner thinks the K is good and xxx is bad, when the opposite is true) and 4♦ would suggest concern re the ♥ suit... which concern I obviously don't share :)

 

 

 

I would bid 4♥ and over the expected 4♠ I'd bid 5♦... I have no qualms about bidding the void now because cuing both reds focusses partner on the ♣ suit.

 

If he surprises me over 4♥... if he cues 5♣ I bid 5♦ and drive to slam while hoping to hear 6♣ over which I think I would close my eyes and bid 7.

 

If he cues 5♦, I bid 5♥ and pass 5♠.

[bid_em_up]

5D as exclusion RKC. I want to know how many keycards partner holds outside of diamonds (and is really all I care about at this point).

[mike777]

5D as exclusion RKC. I want to know how many keycards partner holds outside of diamonds (and is really all I care about at this point).

I guess you do not need to worry about xx in clubs.

 

Good point on not cuebidding void first....

[mikeh]

5D as exclusion RKC. I want to know how many keycards partner holds outside of diamonds (and is really all I care about at this point).

not true... there is one heck of a difference between Kxx in ♠ with Jxx(x) in ♣ on the one hand, and Kxx with KJx in ♣ on the other.

 

And between Kxx and Axx in the blacks on the one hand and Kxx AKx in the blacks on the other.

 

Now, if your exclusion agreement extends to 2-suit keycard, (as logically it could if you desired), exclusion makes much more sense

[benlessard]

easy 3 clubs bid

 

of course some will argue that 2c is rarely passed. but it does happens and when its does its because partner had clubs wich means you lost many imps or you got a big fat mat6chpoint zero.

 

x

xxxx

xxxx

AKxx

 

since opener could could have only 3 (or 2 clubs if 2d show 4) everybody will pass 2 clubs with that hand. and you have a fair chance of making 7.

[Codo]

I Had bid 2 Club not three, yes I will misss some slams with pure seven points in clubs. So what? They will fail oftern in 3 NT opposite a non fitting hand with just one ore zero diamond stopper or no heart stopper...

 

I will bid 3 NT serious after 3 spades, which has the charme, that my pd will show me his club Keycard after this. If I don´t have this tool, I cuebid a simple 4 Diamond, I see no reason at all to deny a control just because it is as strong as a void....

[Winstonm]

I can't imagine bidding more than 2C the first time. My jump forces partner to game opposite a minimum - it doesn't force him to hold a fit for either of my suits.

 

Over 1S-1N-3C-3N what am I to bid? Partner is somewhat coerced into that bid with a holding like x, Jxxxx, KQxx, Jxx and he should really expect a more suitable dummy than the one shown.

[whereagles]

Jump. Sure, pard may have a weakish 55 reds, but for heaven's sake, this hand almost makes 4♠ on its own :)