Defensive problem from 8/1

[pclayton]

Defensive problem from last night - last board.

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&w=sk74ha83dq632cq64&s=sq32hkj62dat9ck53]266|200|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

You are vul the opps are not.

 

You open 1♣ as dealer, pass, pass, 1N on right (11-14 or so). LHO raises to 3N.

 

You start with the ♥6 (3/5), 3, 9, 10

 

2. ♣2, 3, Q, 7

3. ♣4, J, A, ?

[mikeh]

The first question is whether partner holds J10x of ♣ or Jx. We don't know our signalling methods (well, the readers here don't). But I like to think that a good defender would play the J from Jx, at trick 2, regardless of methods.

 

In that case he has J10x and we can and should unblock to get the ♥ through.

 

However, why is declarer adopting this line with Qxx opposite A98x... he has scored the Q and surely he is risking establishing an extra defensive trick for you if you are 4=4 in the rounded suits? Maybe he is desperate... sees no other line... maybe he is 3=3=3=4 with A109 Q10x Kxx A98x or the like.

 

The flip side is that maybe he has A1098x in ♣ and you are about to blow the entire suit (and, probably, the contract) by a spectacularly unsucessful unblock :blink:

 

Heck, if I don't unblock and partner holds the J10x, I can never look him (or her) in the eye again.. after all, I will have played partner to have made an error or lazy play in ♣. OTOH, if I unblock, then at least partner shares the blame, and the kibitzers have a good laugh and I get to post a good problem on BBO.

 

So I unblock..........

[pclayton]

Thanks Mike.

 

I'm come back to this after I hear from a few others.

[ArcLight]

From pards play of the Club J declarer has the CLub 10.

(I don't see why you would play J from J T x)

 

Unblocking the Club king = a free trick for declarer

 

 

They have 22-25 HCP, so we have 15-18. -13 = 2-5 for pard

Weve seen his J, so he can't have the Dime holding KJxx over Dummy.

He has room for 1-4. What if he has AT9 in spades?

 

Maybe I'd like a heart lead from pard, to set up 2, assuming declarer has 3 hearts. With 4 no hope there.

 

Don't want to open Diamonds.

If pard has AT9 spades, opening Spades gives away 3 tricks. With ATx it gives away 1.

Dont want to lead another heart into the AQ combo.

 

The thing is, if I unblock the Club K, I give away a trick, if pard doesn't have the 10. So I see no advantage to doing so.

If I duck, maybe declarer opens a suit? Nahh...

 

Declarer can get 2 clubs, 2 hearts, and some extras, but for 9 I think he needs to touch all the suits.

 

I win the Club King, Play Ace and another diamond.

 

Let declarer have 2 hearts, 3 dimes, 2 clubs, (maybe 1 more)

but we get 3 Spades, the ace of diamonds, and pard can lead back a heart.

 

 

 

(I can't wait to see how far off I am, having made the only play to allow declarer make an over trick!) :blink:

[mikeh]

From pards play of the Club J declarere has the CLub 10.

(I don't see why you would play J from J T x)

 

The purpose of the J from J10x is precisely to announce possession of the 10. Declarer is attacking the suit. Your holding of 10x is irrelevant on any lie of the cards consistent with declarer going after the suit given that partner opened 1♣. In a similar vein, possession of Jx is irelevant. The only holding of relevance is J10x.. .that is the only holding with which you can help out partner by potentially winning a trick on an auction in which it is probably critical to get partner off an endplay.

 

Therefore a good defender will play his cards from Jx and 10x and J10x in a manner so as to allow partner to tell the difference.

 

If you robotically play x10 or xJ from the doubletons and x10 from the tripleton, partner is guessing. So you have to play your cards from the doubleton differently than from the tripleton. Obviously, from J10x, you must play the x under the Queen, else declarer plays low to his 9 :blink: So you should play the honour from the doubleton.

 

This suggests that playing x10 should show the J. However, it is very important to go out of your way to help partner... and playing the J is the card that is most likely to wake partner up if he is at all in need of help in that regard. So I feel, strongly, that a good partner, with J10x, will play xJ.

 

A sleeping partner or a less than expert partner might well just be following suit with xJ.

 

I am not saying that my unblock was the winning play... we will await disclosure of the hand, but I hope I have shown you why, in a good defensive partnership, one might (and should) play the J from J10x on the second round.

 

BTW, in my view, once a partnership gets to this level of at-the-table thinking, which relies upon analysis of a particular hand rather than rote 'learning', it has become a very good pair.

[Echognome]

If playing udca, is this not reversed?

 

From Jx or Tx, play x then J (or T).

 

From JTx, play T then x.

[cherdano]

If playing udca, is this not reversed?

 

From Jx or Tx, play x then J (or T).

 

From JTx, play T then x.

You can't afford to throw an honor from JTx on the first round, as partner might have Axx.

 

Mike's logic wouldn't have occurred to me. Thanks Phil for the post and Mike for his explanations.

[Free]

First I wasn't looking at trick 2 and 3. I thought that ♣ are the only possible way to reach partner. Why would he play the J from JTx at the 2nd turn? To show you his point, to make your life easier, so you don't start with wishful thinking.

 

Now the problem is: it's MP! In imps you should unblock as fast as you can. But still I think it's right to unblock here in MP scoring as well. We were V vs NV, and with a 5 card ♣ I think your RHO would've just passed and hoped for +200...

[bid_em_up]

Phil,

 

Please rotate the hands!!

[pclayton]

Phil,

 

Please rotate the hands!!

The hands are correct. You are on opening lead; the dummy is on your left and declarer is on your right.

[kenrexford]

Dead-on analysis, almost.

 

With 10x or Jx, a thoughtful partner will play the 10 or the Jack, respectively, to allow the J10x to be known at trick two.

 

That being said, the play of the Jack from J10x next is not a required next play, for the play of the 10 would show the same holding. Thus, the choice of which honor to play at trick two in that suit is optional, with the choice sending a message.

 

If the partnership uses the SMith Echo, and it applies (probably not here), then the choice would seem to be attitude for hearts.

 

More likely, even if using Smith, the choice should have suit-preference implications between spades and diamonds. If this can be trusted, I expect partner to have the Ace, but not the Jack, of spades (both would be too much). He does not have the diamond King, for certain.

 

This allows me to visualize declarer as holding something like J10x-Q10x-KJx-A98x. With that holding, this silly contract is making on 22 HCP's. Perhaps partner does not have the spade Ace.

 

I wish this were IMP's. Then, I give partner the A109x of spades, making it interesting. I think I need to save my club, now. When I get in with a minor, I lead a small spade to his 10, forcing the Jack out. When I get in with the second minor card, I lead the Queen, and we take five tricks before his nine.

 

If I ditch my club King, Declarer fails by leading another club, because partner can counter with the lead of the spade 10. But, a switch by Declarer to diamonds creates a problem. If I win and lead a small spade, partner will be endplayed when he gets in with the club. If I switch to the spade Queen, this works, because partner can win the Ace, and then knock out the spade Jack, with the club entry.

 

So, will partner find the defense? It seems to make things harder for him if I go out of my way to get partner in for a heart lead when I want a spade switch. So, I save my club King because I know what needs to be done, I think...

[pclayton]

At the table, I went on a different tact than was has been presented here. Many of you are really reading a lot into the subsequent play of the Jack, versus what it would have meant if partner played the club J on the 1st round of the suit.

 

I suppose there is some logic in having the delayed Jack to show JTx. When declarer leads toward the Q at T2, partner can't afford the J from JTx, since declarer could have K9x and the J wastes a trick. But dropping the J from Jx at T1 could differentiate between Jx and JTx, since there is no harm in dropping the J from Jx.

 

To complicate matters more, if declarer leads from the board to hand, the play of the J from JTx is a free play, while the play of the J from Jx could cost.

 

Weird.

 

Anyway, here's the actual hand:

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=stxxxh9xxdjxxxcjx&w=skxxha8xdqxxxcqxx&e=sajxhqt7dkxcat98x&s=sqxxhkjxxdat9ckxx]399|300|[/hv]

 

I honestly didn't consider the ramifications of Jx versus Jxx, however, I fully expected declarer (my EX pard) NOT to make a balance on such a hand. I also didnt really consider A98x versus AT98x; frankly, I think playing the Ace from A98x is a strong play, since I'll be endplayed with both Kxx as well as KTxx.

 

I think if I posted the actual hand that most of the learned posters would indeed not balance.

 

I did drop the King and then suffered the ignominy of being squeezed into oblivion on the 4th and 5th club. A miserable -490.

 

I did politely mention to declarer if he passes like he should that 1♣ should go down -500 on best defense.

 

A last great act of defiance!

[bid_em_up]

Phil,

 

Please rotate the hands!!

The hands are correct. You are on opening lead; the dummy is on your left and declarer is on your right.

Funny, on my screen, in the original post, dummy is North, and I am East (making dummy on my right and east is leading the 6 of hearts into Norths A83.

[ArcLight]

JTx vs Tx vs Jx

 

If I understand correctly, you always play the higher card from the (worthless) doubleton first, because when you have JTx you want to distinguish this (useful) holding from the worthless doubletons.

 

Is this true because this is a suit pard bid? Or is it always carded this way?

 

(I'll have to look this up in Kantars Modern Bridge Defense)