Slam decision

[jdeegan]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=sj73haj84daj1097c10]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♥-P-4♣-P

4♦-P-4♥-P

4♠-P-5♦-P

5♥-P-????[/hv]

 

:blink: Now what?

[mr1303]

I voted for pass here.

 

Partner hasn't taken control of the auction by bidding Blackwood. Therefore he's concerned about something, and whatever that something is, I don't think I have it. Whilst I have my splinter bid, I don't have any extras. I only have 2nd round club control (not 1st, which may help), and I don't have any fillers in the spade suit.

 

I'm not convinced that I'm right here, but if slam makes, I'm willing to bet it wasn't cold.

[Finch]

What sort of cuebidding are we playing?

 

In my simple world, partner's 4D bid showed first round control, so is therefore a void, which is no help at all and I pass [note that I might cue a second round diamond control as a sort of last-train effort on this auction, but not if I am planning to move with 4S over 4H anyway]

 

If we cue aces or kings indiscriminately, but not shortage in a side suit, then partner has the DK and I bid a slam, as I have a source of tricks.

 

In the world of indiscriminate cue-ing of aces, kings, voids and singletons I have no idea what my partner's hand is.

 

If we don't know whether partner's diamond cuebid is x or KQx then we have to guess what partner is looking for. It sounds to me as if the most likely thing he is after is some help in spades, because he first cuebid 4D without the ace, and then he moved over 4H but again clearly looking for something extra. Give him

 

Axx

KQxxxx

x

Axx

 

and slam needs diamonds 4-3, or Hx in the right hand, together with hearts 2-1 (it's better than than on a non-spade lead as we also make with any diamond honour doubleton)

 

That's just about worth being in. However, he could have

AQxx

KQxxx

x

Axx

 

when slam is pretty poor.

 

In summary: I'll bid a slam if my approach to cuebidding means I am pretty confident partner has the king of diamonds, otherwise I won't.

[pclayton]

As a preface, I slightly disagree with the splinter and think 2♦ is a better call.

 

I think this is a great discussion hand.

 

Should all slam auctions where the partnership can determine all suits are covered with either 1st and 2nd round controls default to key card? My answer is an emphatic NO.

 

Frances' comments about cue bidding style are valid, but the logic goes deeper. Pard is looking for something, and that something is a source of tricks. Its not necessarily a hand that is flawed for key card.

 

How would you bid holding:

 

Ax

KQxxx

Kxx

Axx

 

This is a nice hand, no? 6 losers, and pard generally shows 6-7 losers for the immediate splinter. We have nice coverage in the club suit, but look at a few other possible hands for a splinter:

 

Jxxx

AJxxx

Axxx

void

 

Where six has no play on a spade lead, and needs 3-3 diamonds otherwise.

 

How about:

 

Kxxx

Axxx

QJxx

x

 

Slam is excellent.

 

Opposite the actual hand, 6 is frigid and 7 just needs to locate the ♦Q. If pard held the super moose of: Ax, KQxxx, KQx, Axx, I would fully expect a 4N call.

 

So, with an intelligent partner, the bidding should indicate a need for tricks, and I answer the call with a 6♦.

 

OK, by the way, if pard is cue bidding a diamond void on something like: Axxx, KQxxx, void, Axxx, I'll apologize later (but I slam is still possible on a non-spade lead :blink:) It would be my style to cue the A♠ first anyway.

[bearmum]

[hv=d=n&v=b&s=sj73haj84daj1097c10]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♥-P-4♣-P

4♦-P-4♥-P

4♠-P-5♦-P

5♥-P-????[/hv]

 

:blink: Now what?

NOT having looked at ANY other answers :D

 

Assuming SAYC bidding

1. I WOULD NOT not have bid the splinter (as I have MIN values for that bid and it cuts SO much room from the bidding!) but would bid 2♦ before supporting ♥ :blink: B)

 

BUT on the bidding :blink:

PASS as quickly as possible ----- I have shown

1. 4♥ including the ACE

2. a singleton club

 

AND partner has shown A♠ and a VOID as I play it --(or maybe a singleton -- depending on partnership agreement)-- in ♦--- IMHO we might be down in the 5 level in ♥

[Finch]

How would you bid holding:

 

Ax

KQxxx

Kxx

Axx

 

How about:

 

Opposite the actual hand, 6 is frigid and 7 just needs to locate the ♦Q. If pard held the super moose of: Ax, KQxxx, KQx, Axx, I would fully expect a 4N call.

6 also needs to locate the queen of diamonds.

I'm going to lead a spade against it... play on.

[jdeegan]

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sakq32hq109762dcj9&s=sj54haj84daj1097c10]133|200|Scoring: IMP

1♥-P-4♣-P

4♦-P-4♥-P

4♠-P-5♦-P

5♥-P-???[/hv]

 

:blink: The full hand. Yes, I assumed we played old fashioned cue bids showing first round controls first - it was a BBO indy, and partner was a BBO 'expert'. I expected partner to pass 5♥ unless he had something extra and special - like the AK of trumps. Alas, he bid 6♥ and redoubled when my LHO doubled the final contract. I was hopeful, but the trump king was offside and once guarded.

 

Is it my imagination or are some BBO indies getting weird? I watched one BBO 'expert' (from an unnamed country located between Germany and Belarus) pass forcing bids on several occasions, once in my favor and once not. Oh well, I just play the damn things for the practice.

[Finch]

It's hard to feel very strongly about it when slam was straight on a finesse.

 

I obviously don't play on BBO enough (well, at all) because it's hard to see why anyone had either a double or a redouble.

[mikeh]

I pass

 

I eco those who object to the splinter... not because of strength but because I hold a source of tricks, and I prefer that the splinter denies a good 5 card side suit. I never understand the urge to splinter on these hands... let's bid 2♦ and raise ♥ later. Thus 1♥ 2♦ 2♥ 4♣ would allow partner to evaluate his hand far more accurately than we can currently value ours. Splinter when doing so tells partner about the most important feature of your hand.... here, the ♦ suit is the most important for slam purposes, yet partner has no clue that we hold this hand.

[Finch]

The disadvantage of responding 2D then jumping to 4C is that you now lose the ability to show a 3-card raise with club shortage, or you lose the ability to distinguish between 3 and 4-card raises.

[pclayton]

[hv=d=n&v=b&n=sakq32hq109762dcj9&s=sj54haj84daj1097c10]133|200|Scoring: IMP

1♥-P-4♣-P

4♦-P-4♥-P

4♠-P-5♦-P

5♥-P-???[/hv]

 

:P The full hand. Yes, I assumed we played old fashioned cue bids showing first round controls first - it was a BBO indy, and partner was a BBO 'expert'. I expected partner to pass 5♥ unless he had something extra and special - like the AK of trumps. Alas, he bid 6♥ and redoubled when my LHO doubled the final contract. I was hopeful, but the trump king was offside and once guarded.

 

Is it my imagination or are some BBO indies getting weird? I watched one BBO 'expert' (from an unnamed country located between Germany and Belarus) pass forcing bids on several occasions, once in my favor and once not. Oh well, I just play the damn things for the practice.

A lot of us would open that hand 1♠, but its a matter of style and I have no qualms with 1♥.

 

I like a 4♠ call over 4♦; it forces pard to cue the club void or stiff A. Over 5♦; 5♥.

 

Its then a coin toss on whether or not responder carries on to 6; which is appropriate since slam is a toss-up ;) .

 

Its an interesting exercise to concoct an auction that starts with 2♦. I can't come to anything conclusive as far as an intelligent 2/1 sequence that stops in 5. Can anyone else?

[Mosene]

The 4 diamond cue bid was a waste of time. All North needs is good hearts (as the splinter rarely shows a singleton A grand is out of the question). 5 hearts seems like the right bid or something that might ask about the heart honor situation. May not be any easier to bid 6 but probably OK with AJXX.

 

Also, I do not think the 4 heart bid showed the heart A - it may have simply been "i have nothing else to say."

[HeartA]

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ AKQ32 ♥ Q109762 ♦ [space] ♣ J9 ♠ J54 ♥ AJ84 ♦ AJ1097 ♣ 10

1♥-P-4♣-P 4♦-P-4♥-P 4♠-P-5♦-P 5♥-P-???

 

:P The full hand.  Yes, I assumed we played old fashioned cue bids showing first round controls first - it was a BBO indy, and partner was a BBO 'expert'.  I expected partner to pass 5♥ unless he had something extra and special - like the AK of trumps.  Alas, he bid 6♥ and redoubled when my LHO doubled the final contract. I was hopeful, but the trump king was offside and once guarded.

 

Is it my imagination or are some BBO indies getting weird?  I watched one BBO 'expert' (from an unnamed country located between Germany and Belarus) pass forcing bids on several occasions, once in my favor and once not.  Oh well, I just play the damn things for the practice.

A lot of us would open that hand 1♠, but its a matter of style and I have no qualms with 1♥.

 

I like a 4♠ call over 4♦; it forces pard to cue the club void or stiff A. Over 5♦; 5♥.

 

Its then a coin toss on whether or not responder carries on to 6; which is appropriate since slam is a toss-up ;) .

 

Its an interesting exercise to concoct an auction that starts with 2♦. I can't come to anything conclusive as far as an intelligent 2/1 sequence that stops in 5. Can anyone else?

I find myself agree with Phil most of the time.

[whereagles]

I don't care what pard has. He's bidding like hell and I'm not going to disapoint him. 6♥

[mikeh]

Dealer: North Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ AKQ32 ♥ Q109762 ♦ [space] ♣ J9 ♠ J54 ♥ AJ84 ♦ AJ1097 ♣ 10

1♥-P-4♣-P 4♦-P-4♥-P 4♠-P-5♦-P 5♥-P-???

 

:) The full hand.  Yes, I assumed we played old fashioned cue bids showing first round controls first - it was a BBO indy, and partner was a BBO 'expert'.  I expected partner to pass 5♥ unless he had something extra and special - like the AK of trumps.  Alas, he bid 6♥ and redoubled when my LHO doubled the final contract. I was hopeful, but the trump king was offside and once guarded.

 

Is it my imagination or are some BBO indies getting weird?  I watched one BBO 'expert' (from an unnamed country located between Germany and Belarus) pass forcing bids on several occasions, once in my favor and once not.  Oh well, I just play the damn things for the practice.

A lot of us would open that hand 1♠, but its a matter of style and I have no qualms with 1♥.

 

I like a 4♠ call over 4♦; it forces pard to cue the club void or stiff A. Over 5♦; 5♥.

 

Its then a coin toss on whether or not responder carries on to 6; which is appropriate since slam is a toss-up B) .

 

Its an interesting exercise to concoct an auction that starts with 2♦. I can't come to anything conclusive as far as an intelligent 2/1 sequence that stops in 5. Can anyone else?

1♥ 2♦

2♥ 4♣

5♦ 5♥

P

 

 

is one possibility, but it involves 2 questionable calls: the rebid of 2♥, when most might prefer 2♠. 2♥ is justifiable, if at all, on the basis that the 2♦ bid actually prompts a downgrade of the hand.. and bidding and rebidding ♠ might get us too high.

 

If opener does elect to bid 2♥, then the splinter seems logical and now opener might choose a rare excursion into exclusion in partner's first suit... while this may seem odd, I don't think that 5♦ could be misunderstood in a partnership that uses exclusion: such partnerships seem likely to use 1430 responses, which works just fine.

 

1♥ 2♦

2♠ 3♥

3♠ 4♥

p

 

responder is hardly strong enough to go beyond game on this sequence: he knows his ♦ are not working, in terms of being a source of tricks, and Jxx in♠ is a bad holding... nowhere nearly as powerful as Qxx or Kxx. He has great trump in context, but what else is he to bid over 3♠?

 

Maybe North might make one more try over 4♥, because it sure sounds like S has no ♣ stopper... but south could easily hold Jxx Kxx AKQxx xx for example.

 

So my view is that it is tough to come up with plausible slam sequences after 2♦ :) Which is NOT a plug for 2♦, given that the slam is as close to 50% as one can imagine... anything other than an early ♠ ruff leaves it dependent on a finesse.

[neilkaz]

Assuming I am the splinter bidder and first round controls are Q-bid as presumed in the initial post. On the bidding I have shown a GF hand with a stiff club, PD has shown a D void (since I have the ace), I then showed lack of excitement with 4H, but PD carried onward with his 4S Q to which I showed the D ace and confirmed that I didn't splinter with the stiff C ace or a void by bidding 5D. Now PD stops in 5H.

 

What does this mean ? To me it means that he bid 4S looking for something, was that something the very rare (for me) chance of a splinter with a stiff ace or void, or it is flashing a slam invite signal and looking for spade help ? Certainly I could have the KQ in spades and if PD has stronger hearts, slam should be cold. So I think it most likely PD's 4S was flashing a slam signal and looking for something which I denied by my 5D bid. Therefore 5H looks like a sign off to me. I also assume that PD won't be helped by knowing that he can pitch one card on my ace of D. I expect a spade and club loser and note that PD could've raised to 5H to ask for trump help whereby I would've bid 6H.

 

I'll respect that s/off and pass all day long since I have some of my trick taking potential opposite PD's void.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[adhoc3]

If 4D show 1st control, stop sounds reasonable.

 

But I live for second control cuebid, ie, 4D could have shown DK. There IS reason to bid 6. It's not a too bad slam, isn't? we have 10 cards fit and only need to catch HK.

 

I doubt on opener's cuebid 4D. Sometimes, it's just confusing starting cuebid with a void. What he want to know is Club A and trump honor. The splinter has already denied a stiff A or void in club. So there is surely 1 losser. I would bid 4S after 4C. After responders's 5D, 5H would be safe landing. Of course pard can go to 6 by himself when has both HAK. If responder can't cuebid 5D, he must have HAK to bid splinter.

 

Regards,

 

Jack

 

BTW, learned from Phil's post, 1H--2D could be much better sequence. But in my agreement with pard, 1H--2D denied 4 cards support, pard could probably mis-judge the whole hand. Don't know when would be a good chance to psy pard B)

[Gpm_bg]

If i was the partner with first showen cards, i would bid 5♥ on 4♠ control. After on mine 4♥ control, partner has ambitions for something higher, i will not let him stop. he declare 4♦, mine 5♦ is useless bid.

5♥ somekind josephine and the fate is in his fingers :lol: , 5 or 6 he deside, but with 4♦ void and mine 4♥ and 4♣ mostly 6 level is very good looking

[benlessard]

IMHO the 4club bid is horrible.

 

Hiding a suit like AJT9x is just plain bad bridge.

 

In my experience when opener cue- bid at the 5 level and come back to game at 5 level after cue-bid in all suits he need help in trumps. Ajxx inst enough i pass.

 

with opener i would have raised 4h to 5h meaning im not worried about controls im worried about trumps.

 

 

 

Ben

[P_Marlowe]

6H

 

Partner did show interest in a

small slam with 4S and also that he

controlls spade, the most simple action

would have been 4NT over 4S, which

would have answered all open question.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe