Harder to find good game?

[adhoc3]

Anyone feels the same that it's a little bit harder than before to find some good games, I mean random game, in BBO?

[uday]

Do you mean games with a high skill level, games with a compatible (with yours) skill level, games where people are nice, or games where people stick around for a bit?

[matmat]

yes, yes, yes and yes?

[uday]

Other than the usual advice: find compatible players the hard way and play with them, the only other approach that has sort of worked is the creation of clubs that try for yes,yes,yes and yes.

 

Clubs like this seem to generate hard feelings.

 

 

Anyway, i'm open to ideas. social ratings, anyone?

[Echognome]

Actually, I find great games all the time. No complaints here.

[mr1303]

I'm with Matt on this one. If anything I think it's gone the other way: I'm finding more good quality games rather than struggling to find them.

 

OBviously time of day makes a difference.

[adhoc3]

I dont believe social rating, if it means giving rates to others. If people is honest giving rates, they'd be honest to their level and behave better.

 

Looking for friends is much easier way, you can always find them ON BBO :angry:

[jillybean]

It could be useful to be able to restrict players to those who have had fewer than # suspensions from BBO or players who have left fewer than # incomplete boards/tournaments.

 

Maybe TD's could share ban lists too. Running tournaments with players who simply get fed up and leave is not much fun at all. I'd like to be able to set my own #played/deserted ratio, the one used by BBO seems far too lenient.

[matmat]

hmmm... perhaps i misunderstood the original post. it is not difficult to find a good/pleasant game with friends, but that typically fits the definition of friends...

 

random games, on the other hand, are quite different. People lie on their profiles about ability, about conventions they claim to play. they leave in middle of hands, etc.

 

i can't really speak for what it was a long time ago, but anytime i try to play at a random table i stand up annoyed, frustradet and dismayed.

[neilkaz]

Below the expert level it can be a crap shoot to find a decent game, ie at the advanced level. Keep in mind that some players consider theirselves to be advanced or even expert, just bcuz they took a winning finesse once.

 

Players constantly leave in the middle of hands, and worse yet in the middle of defence or even as declarer when they've bid (often due to gross error from dummy or a missunderstanding) to a hopeless contract.

 

There should be stats available as to how often a player (yes in MBC) leaves prior to completion of the hand.

 

The first player to leave in the partnership should be the one punished. There should be no punishment for leaving without taking a bid. Dummy shouldn't be punished at all for leaving. Declarer and the first defender to leave should be punished. By punished, I don't mean suspended, I mean there need to be stats as to what percentage of hands, players have bailed out of.

 

To get good games, build up a BIG friends list of players who bid reasonably like you do and who are reasonably compatable. You can have a real good game if 3 or 4 of the players are friends.

 

When you're side is hosting and its obvious that one of the opps is a good player paired with an idiot, ask him/her if he'd like a better pd (privately).

 

For me, being American, the best time for good games is later into my evenings, but that gets a bit late for me usually.

 

Also, what is the point of being an advanced level player who speaks fluent English (and likely a couple other langs) but who lists his level as private, and lists absolutely nothing as to what he/she plays and needs to be asked 3 times as to what system and carding ?!!? I encounter this MUCH too often.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[Al_U_Card]

Interesting thought about the "leaving within a hand" value :o (clever JB!). Since we see our metric for posts in here, how about a metric for quitters? :angry: Some scale or level relative to hands played that would easily identify them. :blink: This is one of my main beefs. I usually start a table and filter incoming to only adv. or better. Up to me to police my table. :( Seeing an "expert" with a hi quit value would definitely help me choose. :D

[julie5607]

I have suggested this before but it seems a reasonable time to suggest it again. I think it would be a good idea if the there were another setting that the host could use when creating a table - suggested table level. Since people self-rate and hosts have to make snap decisions about players requesting a seat, it seems to me that if the host could make it clear that the suggested table level is beginner, intermediate, expert or advanced players seeking a game could filter tables with empty seats by suggested level. I know that some people do this with table notes but it seems to me that many don't read the notes or ignore them, and it is hard to check the self-rating of players at tables with empty seats before the seats are filled.

 

This suggestion would actually benefit the lower level players more than the upper level players, as they would more easily be able to find a table at their comfort level. Unfortunately it wouldn't do much to address the problem of table hoppers but at least should keep the self-professed "world class" away from the newbies who are just seeking a nice social game at an unintimidating level.

 

Julie

[mgoetze]

at least should keep the self-professed "world class" away from the newbies who are just seeking a nice social game at an unintimidating level.

I hadn't realized this was much of a problem... I thought the problem was more keeping them away from the real world class players...

[julie5607]

Mgoetz -

 

Of course it's a problem. As a matter of fact it's a much bigger problem than the one you mention. Most true world class players are more than capable of holding their own when an idiot sits at their table. They have a hand or two of idiocy and move on, one way or another.

 

 

The real issues in finding games at BBO are:

 

1. The little old ladies and newbies, many of whom are not computer literate enough to fill out a profile or figure out how to display table notes. They log in and sit in the first available seat, or start a new table and leave it open for any takers. What happens to them is that after a hand or two they do something like lead 4th best from kqjxx against a suit contract, or some other move that is so novice and insane that it infuriates their partner and they get BLASTED. These people are not capable of contacting abuse, and they really don't know what they did wrong. I have a few clients in this category, ex-MSN players. I try to direct them to the MSN refugees club but they are not computer savvy enough to find it every time. They don't like BBO at all because every time they play people are "so rude" to them. This suggestion would help them find more appropriate seats, especially if someone could set their filters for them to only see empty beginner and intermediate tables.

 

2. The bulk of the players at BBO who have a reasonable idea of their actual playing level and are looking for a pick-up game have an incredibly difficult time finding the right table. Look at what happens when you start to look at empty seats. You see maybe 30 or 40 tables, constantly shifting and changing. You rest your mouse on the players at one table and see two intermediates and one World Class - you were looking for an advanced table, forget that. You look at another table, see two advanced and a novice - hmm, is that novice one of those experts who think it's funny to self rate as a novice? By the time you decide to risk it the seat is taken. The tables shift constantly, it takes time to read the profiles of the players in the seat opposite the one you want, let alone those of the other players, and the seats are gone before you can make a decision. There are also a ton of tables with no note and one player with no profile - how can you even think to sit there?

 

How much easier would it be if the host had to set a table level before opening the table? That way the average player can at least easily see the level the host INTENDS the game to be played at, and if a player comes to sit who is way off base (too weak OR too strong) they can politely be told they are at the wrong level table and to please find one that is more appropriate.

 

Of course self rating of table levels has the same problems as self rating of play levels (I would expect rampant level inflation, all intermediate tables should be beginner, expert tables should be advanced, etc) and plenty of idiots who self-suggest "world class" without any bridge skills to speak of. But, the bulk of the players who are just looking for a good game at the proper level should find this to be a much better system than what is in place already.

 

And the real world class can take care of themselves, as they do already.

 

Julie

[Al_U_Card]

A thought. Perhaps at the login screen, when you check to remember password, there could be a "choose site" option for newcomer, social, competitive etc.. Then people would automatically be directed where there are most happy.

[paulg]

My 9-year-old nephew, a true novice, finds it very difficult to find games in the MBC. The 'Help find me a game' button just appears to drop him into a game with advanced and private rated players, which is no good for anyone.

 

On the upside, he does like playing Minibridge (which is more suitable at this point) and enjoys telling all the advanced players that they do not have to bid, just tell him how many points they have :rolleyes:. And he is building a list of friendly players who do not abandon the table as soon as they realise what Minibridge is.

 

P

[adhoc3]

To find good game:

 

1 Build friend list

2 Carefully choose players: profiled is usually much better than those don't

3 Police my table, asking those rude or fake ones leave

4 Join in a proper running private club for qualified players only

5 Remark players as far as I can, but sometimes I was wrong about others

 

That's all I can do.

[sceptic]

what about for stability of players staying at a table, if someone leaves 3 tables in 20 minutes he is auto barred from sitting at a table for two hours or even an hour

 

this may help keep people at a table, one problem solved

 

 

how about auto ranking from other people, everyone has a set of buttons on a pop up beginner, int, adv , expert and everyone on BBO can click an option once only and it accumulates a ranking based on peoples perceptions of their ability

 

I am sure that would cause controversy but overall I think you would get some reasonable idea of the rank of the exageraters online

 

somethink like

 

Sceptic

beg 10 votes

int 20 votes

adv 00 votes

exp 00 votes

 

and a number next to each that anyone that choses to rank you adds up so you may get some feed back as to what level that player is, also by only allowing one person to rank you someone that wants to be a twat and rank everyone cant do much damage to your overall rank in the long run

 

what about an enforced ranking showing up next to their BBO name i.e.

serious player

social player

I wont play with beginners

I only play with experts

and I am sure you can think of a stream of other titles to put in there

[adhoc3]

somethink like

 

Sceptic

beg  10 votes

int    20 votes

adv  00 votes

exp  00 votes

 

Sounds great!

[1eyedjack]

sceptic's suggestion seems to have some merit, although arguably it gets a bit complicated. Anyway, I think a player should have the opportunity to opt out of such a ranking system. If he wants to remain completely "private" then why should he not do so? It may make it more difficult for him to get a game, but that's his problem. No-one is forcing you to play with someone who flags himself as private. Or, if they are forcing you, then it is questionable what merit there is in knowing the rank.

[Tola18]

There should be no punishment for leaving without taking a bid.

Exactly. Take a very typical example. During a hand I write: This is my last hand, tx all, it was nice.

I do sit till the hand is done and some seconds extra. I perhaps want to say something nice more, and or I want to glance at the movie. The new deal comes, they begin to bid... I do leave as said.

 

Technically I quit in the middle of hand, but in reality Im behaving 100% correct.

 

Right??

[Gerardo]

there is none. Punishment for leaving kicks in after all players bid once.

[Tola18]

what about for stability of players staying at a table, if someone leaves 3 tables in 20 minutes he is auto barred from sitting at a table for two hours or even an hour

 

this may help keep people at a table, one problem solved

Yes, something like this. It must be easy to achieve for the programmer, and would stop the most apparent abusers.

 

I second this proposal.

[brianshark]

Regarding finding good matches, I find myself rarely playing in the MBC these days. I do sometimes when I want a relaxed game. And I don't expect much of my opps and p (though occasionally I play with fairly good players there).

 

If I want a serious game, I'll almost always:

-Find/Start a Teams Match (the standard in them is usually higher than the MBC average standard)

-Find a paid tourney (hit and miss - but I have a few favourites)

-Enter some of the BBO teams leagues (great games there)

-Play with GIB (good practice, very solid and doesn't make much mistakes)

-Consult my friends list

 

 

Regarding stability of players, I don't think that as long as a player is willing to finish a hand, that leaving after 1 board and going elsewhere is necessarily that bad. The pull of the MBC is primarily that it's convenient and you aren't tied down. If you don't like your opps, or your regular p comes online, you can leave. I think if you want stable games, join teams games and tourneys. I don't like people leaving in the middle of a hand in the MBC either, but it's not that a big deal, doesn't happen often, and regulating against it is unnecessary imo.

 

 

Regarding players ranking their peers, this is a bad idea imo for the simple reason that I would only trust very good experts (probably the top 5-10% of BBO populace), to actually be good enough to read the deal, see your perspective, and evaluate how optimal or sub-optimal, how lucky or unlucky, etc, your play actually was. The rest would be too temperamental, too focused on the outcome, or simply not good enough to see who made what mistake, to evaluate properly how good or bad a player is.

[Trysalot]

I couldn't help LOL as I read all the posts in this thread because not one person came up with this simple and very effective solution for players leaving social tables in the middle of the hand that would be easy for BBO to implement.

 

My guess is that none of the previous posters play money bridge games. But I do and so here is my suggestion for Fred and Uday to consider.

 

Have the setup of the social tables in the main bridge club and, if the ones running them like the idea, the tables in the public and private social bridge clubs include the money bridge table feature that the "back" (leave) button is disabled and at the end of each hand the system puts up the selection box "play another hand?". Click on "yes" to stay or "no" to leave.

 

The difference of course would be in the "no" answer. In money bridge games, if one human player says "no" the table closes. If one human player waits too long to make a selection, the table closes. For the social tables the "no" click or the no action within the allotted number of seconds would have to result in only that player being removed from the table by the system so that the table remains open with the other players remaining in place and waiting for a replacement player to join the game. With this alteration to the setup the problem is solved. Nobody can leave the table while a hand is in the process of being bid and played.**

 

**The one exception would of course be the present arrangement that a player who has pre-registered (for an individual or with a partner for a pairs game) and paid for a tournament with an entry fee is automatically taken by the system from the social table and dropped into that tournament just before start time. It has not happened to me in a long time so I don't remember if the system puts a message to the table explaining why the player has left. If it doesn't, then that should be added to the new social table setup because many times at a social table the players don't join and say on chat line "just a couple, system will soon be moving me to tourney".