Doping in bridge

[Walddk]

Let me start by emphasizing that I am not accusing anyone, and I cannot point to any specific incidents, but it would be nice to have a debate regarding doping in bridge.

 

The Floyd Landis case in the Tour de France has made me raise this topic, and it would be nice to hear your view on doping in bridge. You may for example want to answer the following 3 questions:

 

1. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) make you a better bridge player?

 

2. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) enhance your stamina and consequently

give you better results?

 

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

 

My own answers are:

 

1. No. You are as good or bad as you are. No drug can help you improve your game.

 

2. Yes, and that could well be a factor in long events. You will make fewer mistakes when it matters, because you are able to concentrate longer than your non-doped opponents of the same skill level - hence making fewer silly mistakes.

 

3. Yes indeed. Sleeping pills, marihuana, cocaine, etc. will surely not be beneficial to your game.

 

Feel free to add other aspects.

 

Roland

[mike777]

Human enhancement at all levels is finally really creaping into the everyday human race disucssion.

 

Not just chemicals/drugs but machine implants of all kinds are going to be a huge discussion. My bet is everyone will just put their heads in the sand and not try and discuss this big issue but try pretend we should only discuss a few drugs that hit the news!

 

Example: What machine implants will be allowed and which forbidden in bridge?

Which memory enhancing drugs will be allowed and which forbidden?

[awm]

Many bridge players make frequent use of caffeine. I have several partners who aren't able to play for a whole session without a coffee, much less through a long multi-day event! Personally I prefer soda, but the need to remain awake and alert throughout is a common one. Sugar also helps with this.

 

On a more serious note, apparently college students have started making use of ritalin as a performance-enhancing drug. For those unfamiliar, this is a drug often prescribed for attention deficit disorder, and it helps people to concentrate over long periods. Students for whom the drug is not prescribed have been using it. I see no reason to believe this drug wouldn't help with bridge for much the same reasons.

[hotShot]

Well i think this is a serious problem. There are doping cases in chess, why should we thnik bridge is free of it?

 

There are drugs to

-enhance the ability to concentrate

-help you keep your temper after a faulty board

-enhance your stamina

-help you relax between the days of a multi day event.

 

Just think of a evening session after dinner when 60+ boards have been played in previous sessions.

Winning a few boards while all the others are still busy digesting. This can make a difference.

 

To answer your questions:

1. Drugs might help you to play more boards the best you can.

2. There are resons to loose concentration even in short matches, anything that helps you to regain that contentration will help.

3. Any pill that has a "don't drive warning" can reduce your ability to play bridge too.

[luke warm]

1. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) make you a better bridge player?

absolutely... adam gave one example... and i disagree that cocaine would be harmful to one's bridge... it is a performance enhancing drug (ask l.t.), but the jury's out as to whether this is for physical endeavors only

 

2. Would any drug (or blood transfusion) enhance your stamina and consequently give you better results?

definitely

 

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

[DrTodd13]

There are any number of drugs that improve mental performance. I briefly tried to find the name of the newsgroup but I couldn't but I do remember a few years back sorta following a newsgroup where people were reporting the results of experimenting on themselves with a bunch of different drugs. They would give subjective impressions of how they felt along with timings of several tasks that measure mental alertness. These people were frankly pretty scary with what they were doing. Large quantities of herbs and chemicals and sometimes they would report bizarre side-effects.

 

Here's a thought puzzle for you. It is not a huge effect but some still claim that ginkgo biloba will enhance mental performance. Could you get in trouble for having it in your blood stream? Does it make a difference if you take tablets with the active ingredient condensed or whether you chew on the leaves all day. Can or should they be able to regulate what you eat? Athletes watch their diets and probably take all kinds of "natural" vitamin supplements. I find the decision as to what they allow you to consume and don't allow you to consume to be pretty arbitrary. I say get rid of all doping regulations and let them all dope. I want to see what a human body can do when aided by the full power of mind and science.

[mrdct]

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

[Codo]

I say get rid of all doping regulations and let them all dope. I want to see what a human body can do when aided by the full power of mind and science.

I think this is a very short sighted statement.

 

To have the full benefit in using doping, you better start while you are a kid. So you basically say, that it is okay to try different dangerous medincines on kids who are not able to see all the advantages and disadvantages.

 

And there are many disadvantages if you see how these drugs may ruin your life.

[Walddk]

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

The same goes for smoking. I am pretty sure I'm right when I claim that nowhere are you allowed to smoke in the room. This has created problems for many nicotine addicts.

 

As we have seen during many vugraph presentations, this results in frequent and long breaks. Long, because in many places you must leave the building in order to get a cigarette. These breaks are known as bathroom breaks, but we know what they mean.

 

Roland

[mike777]

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

The same goes for smoking. I am pretty sure I'm right when I claim that nowhere are you allowed to smoke in the room. This has created problems for many nicotine addicts.

 

As we have seen during many vugraph presentations, this results in frequent and long breaks. Long, because in many places you must leave the building in order to get a cigarette. These breaks are known as bathroom breaks, but we know what they mean.

 

Roland

Is this an argument to bring back...smoking, drinking and eating in ALL forms at the table? :D :)

 

Or an argument to end social bridge in all forms

Edited July 28, 2006 by mike777

[Walddk]

3. Would any drug make your performance worse?

alcohol, hash, etc

I know of several players who would be completely ineffective unless under the influence of alcohol and have major difficulties being competitive when playing in tournaments where alcohol is not allowed at the table.

The same goes for smoking. I am pretty sure I'm right when I claim that nowhere are you allowed to smoke in the room. This has created problems for many nicotine addicts.

 

As we have seen during many vugraph presentations, this results in frequent and long breaks. Long, because in many places you must leave the building in order to get a cigarette. These breaks are known as bathroom breaks, but we know what they mean.

 

Roland

Is this an argument to bring back...smoking, drinking and eating in ALL forms at the table? :D :)

 

Or an argument to end social bridge in all forms

Stating facts whether one likes them or not. Nothing hurts like the truth. As far as I know it's still allowed to chew on one of Mike Hargreaves' awful Canadian chocolate bars.

 

Roland

[whereagles]

My national bridge federation has just adopted the country's general doping legislation. I was sent a list of over 500(!!) substances that I could not use in competition. And worse, I didn't even know what the hell those things were.

 

However, I did look for "cafeine" in the list twice and was quite relieved when I couldn't find it :D

[mikeh]

Or an argument to end social bridge in all forms

Stating facts whether one likes them or not. Nothing hurts like the truth. As far as I know it's still allowed to chew on one of Mike Hargreaves' awful Canadian chocolate bars.

 

Roland

Ouch!

 

Roland, they are 'nanaimo bars', and they are definitley NOT performance enhancing :P

[fred]

As an ex-smoker of 1.5 years and a person who chews nicotine gum constantly regardless of whether I am playing bridge or not, I can confirm that nicotine is good for my bridge.

 

The main reason for this (I think) is because having nicotine in my system allows me to avoid the effects of withdrawl.

 

Besides that, I am told that nicotine is a stimulant that is good for concentration. I have no idea if this effect is meaningful as far as improved bridge performance for me is concerned.

 

I generally only drink coffee in the morning, but if I am playing bridge and feeling tired I will sometimes have a coffee in the middle of the day or at night. Many bridge players use coffee this way (ie for performance enchancing purposes).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[DrTodd13]

I say get rid of all doping regulations and let them all dope.  I want to see what a human body can do when aided by the full power of mind and science.

I think this is a very short sighted statement.

 

To have the full benefit in using doping, you better start while you are a kid. So you basically say, that it is okay to try different dangerous medincines on kids who are not able to see all the advantages and disadvantages.

 

And there are many disadvantages if you see how these drugs may ruin your life.

I don't believe that it is true that you need to start these drugs in childhood. With regards to children, I would not advocate experimenting with children but it is up to each parent to decide what is best for their child. If a drug could make your kids smarter and the risks were negligible then I think you'd have parents lining up around the block.

[DJNeill]

Hi Fred,

 

<OT>Congrats on quitting smoking!</OT>

 

Thanks,

Dan

[joshs]

Many bridge players make frequent use of caffeine. I have several partners who aren't able to play for a whole session without a coffee, much less through a long multi-day event! Personally I prefer soda, but the need to remain awake and alert throughout is a common one. Sugar also helps with this.

 

On a more serious note, apparently college students have started making use of ritalin as a performance-enhancing drug. For those unfamiliar, this is a drug often prescribed for attention deficit disorder, and it helps people to concentrate over long periods. Students for whom the drug is not prescribed have been using it. I see no reason to believe this drug wouldn't help with bridge for much the same reasons.

Ritalin is a wierd drug. Prior to puberty it acts as a downer and is used on overly hyperactive kids. After puberty it has the reverse effect and acts as a stimulent....

[akhare]

This is kind of tangential to the discussion, but I wonder how the body's naturally produced stimulants affect performance at the bridge table.

 

In this case, the reference is specifically to endorphins and possibly adrenaline. To put things in perspective, I once won the district level NAOP champhionships literally right after running a marathon (no, I am not making this up -- I had someone fill in a couple of hands for me while I made it to the club). Of course, in this case one might argue that it can be attributed to other factors that might have affected the opponents (running == sweat -- I will leave the rest to imagination :P).

 

On a related note, I have noticed that low blood sugar levels that result from strenuous long runs can cause you to make some bizarre decisions and play (as my partner will testify). Of course, it's always handy to have an excuse for some really stupid brain dead play :D...

[dogsbreath]

Hi

..maybe the event determines wether benefit would be obtained from drug-taking. In Ireland it considered madness or sheer bravado to play a Mixed Pairs event without prior liberal application of alcohol. :P

 

Rgds Dog

[DrTodd13]

This is kind of tangential to the discussion, but I wonder how the body's naturally produced stimulants affect performance at the bridge table.

 

In this case, the reference is specifically to endorphins and possibly adrenaline. To put things in perspective, I once won the district level NAOP champhionships literally right after running a marathon (no, I am not making this up -- I had someone fill in a couple of hands for me while I made it to the club). Of course, in this case one might argue that it can be attributed to other factors that might have affected the opponents (running == sweat -- I will leave the rest to imagination :P).

 

On a related note, I have noticed that low blood sugar levels that result from strenuous long runs can cause you to make some bizarre decisions and play (as my partner will testify). Of course, it's always handy to have an excuse for some really stupid brain dead play :D...

I doth testify!

 

:)

[joshs]

Dyslexics of the world, Untie!

[the saint]

I've have heard many stories of certain players taking certain substabces to improve their game at the top level. Beta blockers were commonly mentioned. I have already gone on record on other threads as stating that I would like strict anti-doping regs and I have been delighted at the extensive use of smoking bans throughout the game. In a big event stamina is critical, and improving ones fitness to cope with the stresses and demands should be an essential part of the preparation.

 

I have also found that blood-sugar level is critical to my game - my concentration levels, and I'm often carrying something to munch on, or more usually, have a sports energy drink or two with me. I have also found that light exercise a short period before play is relaxing and helps remove a lot of the stresses and tensions that build up.

[mikeh]

While I have heard a number of rumours about top players using drugs, they usually involve recreational substances.... I do not count caffeine or nicotine, altho they are also drugs.

 

I have never tried cocaine, but those of my friends who have tell me that it induces a sense of increased ability which, in hindsight, turns out to have been false.. in that it causes the individual to be very confident about a line of play, for example, that occurs to them early in a hand... whereas without this artificially induced confidence, they might find a better line after more thought.

 

There are some very good players (I'm thinking of one former world champion in particular) who are extremely fast and extremely good... so if, as has been rumoured (and I have no personal knowledge of the truth of the rumour) he (or she) uses coke at the table, then it may have little impact on his/her ability because his or her usual first instinct is awfully good. For players like me, who have to grind their way through various options, coke sounds like a bad idea, independent of all of the other problems with it :P

 

A friend of mine once played bridge while on LSD and has described to me the unique problems that can result: imagine seeing the spots on a card melt and run off the card, leaving it blank.... and you don't remember what it used to be...

 

I also know of one player who won a District NAOP playoff because of marijuana: he was a very uptight, conservative player, playing with a similar partner. They played the 1st session, on both days of the event, 'pure' and rolled back to back 51% games.... a little 'herb' in between loosened this player up and they rolled back to back 67% games in a good field.

 

So sometimes the loss of analytical ability is offset by the relaxation of inhibitions, if the inhibitions get in the way.

 

Sontag, in one of his books (I think it was The Bridge Bum) spoke of Weischel's approach to sex and bridge: he liked to have sex before a team game to get him relaxed, but not before matchpoints, because he wanted to feel an edge. That was 30 years ago and I don't know if Mr. W still feels the same way B)

 

As far as I am concerned, I don't mind the idea of banning (and testing.. without which bans are silly) for performance enhancing drugs... but not for recreational drugs... and how do we deal with Beta Blockers, for example, given that many bridge players require this type of medication? Do we restrict top level bridge only to the young, healthy few.... if so, Justin Lall will get to the Bermuda Bowl a lot sooner than he may otherwise.... B)

[pigpenz]

certain stimulants will improve your awareness or concentration, generally they are short term memory enhancers.

 

I have seen people who are excellent players when their alcohol levels are very high :P

 

some stimulants like dexidrine whould definetely keep one wired alot better than caffeine.

[hrothgar]

There are a wide of drugs that can demonstrated to have a salutory effect on concentration. Folks have already mentioned the four most interesting examples:

 

1. Caffeine: There are a number of studies that suggest that caffeine improves short term memory and aids concentration. It also can help in "real" endurance events (Marathons, triathalons, and the like) Caffeine has traditonally been listed as a restricted substance by the World Anti-Doping Authority (WADA), however, it was recently removed from the list. Many people expect that caffeine will make its way back onto this list.

 

2. Nicotine: Caffeine's big brother... The two molocules are quite similiar and share many of the same properties

 

3. Beta blockers: Beta blockers have a variety of effects including reducing the heart rate and (generally) have a calming effect on people. Beta blockers have been on the IOC banned list for a long time.

 

4. Ritalin: enough said already

 

I have mixed feeling about the whole drug testing issue. I favor banning most performance enhancing substances from professional sports. A lot of the substances that folks use are extremely dangerous. I think that there is something genuinely sick about paying people to commit slow motion suicide. Even if folks are comfortable allowing players "control over their body", the decision to use some of these drugs has an impact on society as a whole. Personally, I'm not excited about having lots of "cranky" testosterone jocks wandering arround.

 

If we move over to bridge, my main concern is whether the WBF would be able to administer drug testing in a fair and unbiased manner. If you are going to ban drugs, I think that you need to ban performance enhancing drugs. This means regulating caffeine, nicotine, ritalin, and the like. This means that all those seniors who need Beta Blockers for their health get booted from competitive bridge. This means that Lynn Deas never gets to play in a big event again.

 

Personally, I don't think that the benefits of an anti-doping program come close to compensating for the very real costs. (Some of the costs will be financial, but the really burdensome ones with be related to the social nature of the game as well as the inevitable legal challenges)

 

From my perspective, the worst possible result would be a half assed drug testing system designed to look for steroids and pot that doesn't actually grapple with any of the drugs that might actually be beneficial to someone competing in a mind sport. I have the unfortunate feeling that this is the type of policy that will be adopted as the WBF continues its efforts to suckle at the IOC teat while cravenly refusing to deal with any important issues.