Youth WC is off

[Walddk]

This is how highly the organizers rate the world's best junior players and the thousands of spectators who would like to watch them on BBO. Here are two letters to show you. I sent mine 1 hour ago and got a reply 15 minutes later. Issues not relevant to the broadcast are omitted.

 

Dear Anthony,

 

12 days to go. Are you saying that we are still waiting for approval? I find it quite strange given that the WBF approved long time ago.

 

Roland Wald

 

....

 

 

Dear Roland,

 

Sorry for the delay. The PABF did not agree to provide the budget for the operator. Unfortunately Panos* is reluctant to squeeze his budget. Therefore there is no WBF approval anyway. I guess that means we can't get the show on.

 

Anthony Ching,

Chief Tournament Director

 

* Panos Gerontopoulos, Chairman of the WBF Youth Committee

[Walddk]

Here is my personal view (which doesn't necessarily reflects the view of the BBO management):

 

The same old story, and I suspect that it's not the last time we see it. We have a pc, we have an internet connection, but we have no operator. Why is that?

 

Because no-one wants to pay!

 

The WBF: not us, the PABF: not us, the Contract Bridge League of Thailand: not us, and BBO: not us.

 

So, who else is there? You? Me? The United Nations? If it hadn't been so sad, it would have been hilarious. *ONE* local operator, and nobody can find the money to cover his or her expenses for 10 days?!

 

Roland

[vincenzo]

WBF (and others) still has not understood that BBO is giving a great FREE service to all bridge players; they can afford every type of cost to organize championships, but not for Vugraph operators ....... no words to comment .... !!! Only solution probabily is to find a sponsor interested on these events. It is possible I will have some good news in september after Crete Bridge Festival

 

Vincenzo

[the saint]

Poor effort. (Not from Roland)

 

 

If the gist of what I get is true from reading a lot of these threads, it seems that a spectacular lack of provision is given for Vugraphing, although if the organisers can get it tacked on for nothing as an afterthought they are happy for that. Considering the astonishing service the BBO software and all the personnel involved in producing a commentary provide, at a cost of essentially nothing, I'm really quite staggered. Especially when the audience figures for even quite small events are now up into the hundreds, and for big events well into the thousands, where do organising comittees and the WBF think they are going to get better value for money publicity and promotion than this? All this, on a media format (the internet), that could almost have been born for this single express purpose.

 

And we continuously wonder why Bridge never gets the kick up the backside it needs? Unfortunately, the perspective I have gained of virtually all organising bodies of most games at virtually every level, is that they tend to be run as old-boys clubs rather than streamlined as they should be for the express purpose of running and promoting top-quality events that cater for the wide spectrum of their membership, whilst promoting the long-term development of the game.

[chicken]

thats ridicolous, how much expenses do we need for the coverage?

 

if 3 people follow i will give 50€.

[Walddk]

thats ridicolous, how much expenses do we need for the coverage?

 

if 3 people follow i will give 50€.

Although this is a very generous offer, I don't support your suggestion. It will obviously be the start of the vicious spiral if this is the way we tackle the issue.

 

If we do it once, then what do we do next time, regardless of the event?

 

Roland

[barmar]

When we do VuGraphs from NABCs the operators are almost all volunteers who are already attending the tournament. The only special expenses involved I think are for the Internet connection. Why do they need to pay operators over there?

[Walddk]

Why do they need to pay operators over there?

Operators are also humans and they need to eat, drink and sleep. You don't get that for nothing in Thailand either. It's not a question of getting paid, merely how you cover their expenses.

 

Roland

[hrothgar]

thats ridicolous, how much expenses do we need for the coverage?

 

if 3 people follow i will give 50€.

Although this is a very generous offer, I don't support your suggestion. It will obviously be the start of the vicious spiral if this is the way we tackle the issue.

 

If we do it once, then what do we do next time, regardless of the event?

 

Roland

You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

 

For better or worse, the folks administering these tournaments don't seem to place a high priority on Vugraph. One option is to sit back and bitch because they won't give us things for free, however, I don't see this as very productive. I very much agree that sponsoring Vugraph would be a good investment for organizations like the WBF. (Online Vugraph is a good example of a "public good". Market based solutions will typically lead to a sub-sopimal level of provision) With this said and done, I don't given any of Bridge's political leadership credit for being able to find their ass with both hands, let alone do any kind of competent strategic planning.

 

The second option is to grasp the bull by the horns and try to do something ourselves. if folks genuinely believe that there is a value in providing Vugraph, they should be willing to fork over some green to pay for it. Equally significant, if folks aren't willing to provide any money, they should stop bitching about lack of services. I'm going to re-post an article that I wrote a couple weeks back dealing with the Junior Vugraph...

 

---------------------

 

Few comments / suggestions regarding Vugraph along with a couple predictions how this side of the “business” will evolve over time. I'd like to decompose the the work associated with provisioning online Vugraph into three distinct elements:

 

1. Local infrastructure: Local infrastructure describes all of the hardware and labor that is required to transmit information from the site at which the tournament is held to the Internet. Local infrastructure encompassed a number of separate expenses including the Internet connection, provisioning laptops, arranging for Vugraph operators, etc.

 

2. Global infrastructure: Global infrastructure refers to the software services that relays information from the site to Vugraph audience scattered all across the Internet.

 

3. Commentary: Commentary is a service offering that gets layered on top of the raw Vugraph.

 

Here's how I'd structure the business model (Please note: I am making an explicit assumption that organizations like the WBF, the ACBL, or the local hosts will not subsidize local infrastructure. Its all fine and dandy if they want to do so, but I don't expect them to do so indefinitely. Moreover, we're seeing large number of cases in which desired Vugraph services aren't available because the necessary operating expenses aren't being built in to the budgetary process).

 

Individuals submit bids to provide “local infrastructure” for event XYZ. The bid will document a set of services that will be provided, along with the fee required to provide this service. End users have the option to donate money to fund the local infrastructure. In theory, a tiered service offering would be possible. (The fixed cost for the Internet connection is $850. I will provide coverage of one table for an additional $150. Two tables for $300....) In the short term, an existing web service like “Fundable” (http://www.fundable.org/) can be used to collect money. I believe that the key to success is going to be providing true transparency into the cost structure. From my own perspective, I'd be willing to provide funds to offset the expenses required associated with provisioning the local site. However, I wouldn't contribute anything if any of the money was being kicked back to the WBF or the ACBL.

 

Global infrastructure is provide by BBO (In theory, a competitor could evolve over time)

 

Commentary: Personally, I'd like to see a system implemented in which commentators could charge for their services. Image a scenario in which Erik Kokish, Fred, and a couple others could band together and agree that they would provide commentary on the USA1 – Italy match XYZ in exchange for $2,000. (Needless to say, this type of system would work best if BBO were to implement multiple chat channels.) Here, once again, a system like Fundable could be used to coordinate the transfer of funds.

 

Long term, I'd argue that it would be in BBO's best interest to duplicate the functionality provided by Fundable. The funding system that I describe requires that someone operate as an honest broker. Someone needs to hold the money that has been pledged to fund and event, evaluate whether the local service provider has lived up to the terms of their “contract”, and then transfer the resources. Personally, I doubt that online Vugraph will ever be large enough to get much attention from the PayPals of the world. However, this might be a nice little niche for BBO. (Futhermore, given all of the infrastructure that BBO is already being added for money bridge and tournaments it should be relatively easy to add this into the mix).

[mr1303]

Frankly I'm fuming about this. When I spoke to someone on the WBF committee in Slovakia he was adamant that there would be extensive vugraph coverage from Thailand, almost to make up for the lack of coverage from Slovakia. I would have loved a chance to be on vugraph in Slovakia.

 

It goes to show that you can't believe a word that comes out of the WBF.

 

I operated at the Lederer trophy last year. It cost me around 50 pounds in order to do this, and wasn't compensated for it. Equally I didn't complain about it either, indeed I was happy to do it.

 

I find it hard to believe that they can't get one person to sit at a computer for a few hours.

[nickf]

before we go off too half-cocked blaming the WBF, let me explain how these WBF events operate as far as I know. I was on the organising committee for the WYTC in sydney last year.

 

When a city is awarded a WBF event they have to sign a contract as thick as your arm. A lot of this is WBF regulation gumpf but a lot revolves around issues like the venue, transport, meals, etc etc. Budgeting to provide all these facilities is a very difficult and costly exercise. One service that is not written into this contract is the provision of on-line match coverage. This is partly due to the newness of on-line bridge and the WBF is still grappling with the technicalities of security among other issues.

 

In Sydney we were lucky to have (if you'll excuse the hyperbole), one of the world's best bridge event organisors David Stern as the convenor. He assured every T was crossed and every I was dotted in accordance with the WBF contract. But then we had to deal with some WBF contigencies. For example:

 

- one WBF official insisted on being provided a hotel suite, rather than a normal room. Whoops ! there goes another couple of thousand dollars.

- one WBF official declared he was bringing his mother and other family members over to Sydney and they needed hotel accommodation (and meals of course). Thats another few thousand.

- The day off leisure activities we had organised werent good enough we were told. Organise a harbour cruise we were told - oops, there goes another $3000.

- You can't have a black and white Daily Bulletin we were told, we want colour photographs.

- Provision of a Press Room? Another few PCs plus more internet connections. And did any international press turn up? Well no.

etcetera etcetera etcetera.

 

Something that is written in stone, absolutely non-negotiable, 100% no questions asked, is that the host venue must supply an on-site Vugraph theatre for the hordes of people that will be clamouring from all corners of (in this case) Bangkok to watch the feature match each day. Well in the case of Sydney we had about 20 people in the theatre (room) for each session, obviously more for the finals.

 

Can the Bangkok organisors tap into this feed and put it on through BBO? I dont know - depends on what VG platform they are using. But that's partly what we did last year.

 

Again, it's not incumbent on the WBF to provide on-line VG coverage, this is all supposed to come out of the organising budget. That the organisors did not budget for on-line coverage is disappointing. In Sydney, we were planning the BBO coverage up to 9 months in advance, we locked in 5 fulltime operators (including 3 from overseas who came to Australia at their own expense) and had a roster of perhaps 6-8 other part-time operators. David Thompson (mrdct on these forums) was a chief organisor of all this and again, he gave willingly of his time.

 

It's all about planning. I learnt some very sobering lessons from the Sydney WYTC about the politics of the WBF and quite frankly they are not an easy organisation to deal or negotiate with.

 

If Bangkok havent got any firm plans in place yet to provide BBO coverage a week out from the championships then it just wont happen. Running a BBO coverage is not rocket science but I dont think its something you can organise at a moment's notice either.

 

nickf

sydney

[the saint]

But then we had to deal with some WBF contigencies. For example:

 

- one WBF official insisted on being provided a hotel suite, rather than a normal room. Whoops ! there goes another couple of thousand dollars.

- one WBF official declared he was bringing his mother and other family members over to Sydney and they needed hotel accommodation (and meals of course). Thats another few thousand.

- The day off leisure activities we had organised werent good enough we were told. Organise a harbour cruise we were told - oops, there goes another $3000.

These examples you give aren't for the benefit of Bridge. They are merely freeloading. For the price of one WBF official insisting on being pampered, we can instead have a vu-graph.

 

Answers on a postcard which provides better value for money.

[nickf]

you're right - they werent for the benefit of bridge.

 

Were they negotiable, was the WBF willing to consider giving up a hotel suite so we could instead spend the money on the kids?

 

I didnt see these concessions being offered in the meetings I had with the WBF.

 

nickf

sydney

[Walddk]

you're right - they werent for the benefit of bridge.

 

Were they negotiable, was the WBF willing to consider giving up a hotel suite so we could instead spend the money on the kids?

 

I didnt see these concessions being offered in the meetings I had with the WBF.

 

nickf

sydney

No wonder they can't afford to offer an operator something to eat, drink, and a modest place to sleep.

 

Excuse me, but it's embarrassing!

 

Roland

[mr1303]

Out of interest, who actually decides who gets these jobs at the WBF? Are they accountable AT ALL to the member countries? If not, why not?

[jocdelevat]

My humile opinion: BBO should make a spot(like lower corner of the table) for advertising when run those events so colud make some money from that. The Internet and TV are best for adversiting. After that it will be easy to find sponsor and to pay the operators. I do not know if advertising is against federation bridge rules and i do not know how much work should be done for that to be possible. The people who watch the vugraph should understand that without advertising more events will not be possible.

 

best regards

Jocdelevat

[mrdct]

In Sydney, we were planning the BBO coverage up to 9 months in advance, we locked in 5 fulltime operators (including 3 from overseas who came to Australia at their own expense) and had a roster of perhaps 6-8 other part-time operators. David Thompson (mrdct on these forums) was a chief organisor of all this and again, he gave willingly of his time.

Just to clarify, the arrangements in Sydney for the five full-time operators were free hotel accommodation at the venue and three meals per day, although a couple of the full-time operators made other accommodation arrangements in Sydney with family or friends (for example Nick generally stayed at his own home).

 

From my own perspective this was quite acceptable as I had a nice 9 day holiday in Sydney doing something I love and with my only out-of-pocket expense being some petrol to drive there from Echuca.

 

With adequate notice, I would've been quite happy to cash in some frequent flyer points and fly to Bangkok for 10 days if my accommodation and meals were being picked up; but too late now.

 

I'm intrigued as to how they plan to run the onsite vugraph. The PABF youth was held in Bangkok only a month or so ago and I believe BBO was used there for the onsite vugraph, so surely they would look to use the same system for the WC.

 

Of the hordes of WBF people in Sydney last year, the only one that appeared to add any value to the process was the Operations Manager, Dimitris Ballas.

 

Even in Sydney, it was quite apparent that the WBF had absolutely no interest whatsoever in the online coverage with their only concern being which fancy restaurant they would go to for dinner each night.

 

Perhaps they should grab one of the WBF freeloaders and sit them at laptop in the vugraph theatre to provide the service.

[chicken]

if they intend to use BBO-software 4 onsite vuegraph, charge them the amount u need 4 covering the expenses of 4 fulltime operators.

[Walddk]

If I had been a WBF executive (I never will be), the juniors would have been highest on my priority list.

 

How do we attract new youngsters to the game? There are several ways, but one thing is certain: definitely not by (indirectly) telling them that they don't matter and that they are not worth showing on vugraph in front of hundreds of spectators.

 

Drop one of the posh dinners for goodness sake and spend the money on bridge! This is not BBO's responsibility; we already offer our software for nothing. What more do the organizers want? If they can't get sponsors, then find the money elsewhere.

 

NickF told you how money could be spent on the kids rather than demanding Hilton suites for the officials.

 

Roland

[icey]

Hi all! I am Raija and this is the first time I write to you. Our dear hobby has gained a lot of new interest, these days people have so many hobbies to choose from. But if we do not want to make the bridge community an old guys club, we have to promote it. BBO is offering a great service for all the bridge players around the world. Fred, Sheri and Uday have worked very hard to make this all possible for us. Roland has been devoting most of his sleeping time I guess for organizing the vugraphs. There are tens of commentators who volunteer their time without any other pay but the thanks of the specs, just because we all love bridge. If tournament organizers do not want to get this great good will and publicity for their own are bridge. I think they want to be a part of the old guys club. In a big tournament it is just a fraction in the costs to get an operator, I am sure there are able and willing people who do not ask for a lot of money, they just need their expenses covered. I am very saddened by the EBU meeting news and PABC decision to cancel the vugraphs.

[Miron]

Funny things in Syndey. The same in Czech Republic....

 

That was the day I start to dislike (or hate) all the EBF.

 

Yes it is freeloading, but you can't do anything about it. Your only option is to not run the event (usually one month before start or earlier) - and you wish to run it...

[geller]

I am very saddened by the EBU meeting news and PABC decision to cancel the vugraphs

The PABF (Pacific Asia Bridge Federation, not PABC) is the Zone 6 federation (like the European Federation or ACBL). In addition to the Zone 6 countries (China, Japan, Thailand, Philippines, Singapore, Indonesia,....) Australia and New Zealand also traditionally have participated in PABF championships, even though they are from another zone for Bermuda Bowl purposes.

 

The PABF junior championships in June were on BBO (lots of problems in the connection though, unfortunately). As far as I know, the World youth championship in August is a WBF event, and PABF has nothing to do with running it (I may be wrong about this). If the above is correct, VuGraph is not a responsibility of PABF, but rather WBF, as well as the host country.

 

I agree that it would be desirable to have a BBO broadcast. In the case of Japan we have locally available operators. I would hope the Thai federation could similarly train local staff. Our experience suggests it's not that hard. You need one moderately computer-literate guy and a few people to key in the action at each table (ordinary PC users can be easily trained). Hopefully something can be worked out.

[barmar]

Why do they need to pay operators over there?

Operators are also humans and they need to eat, drink and sleep. You don't get that for nothing in Thailand either. It's not a question of getting paid, merely how you cover their expenses.

 

Roland

When I was a VuGraph operator for the Reisinger last year, I didn't get anything. I was already at the tournament, I simply chose to take the day off from playing in order to operate the VuGraph. I came out ahead monetarily, since I saved a day's worth of entry fees.

 

But maybe this is only feasible at large tournaments where there are people available to volunteer. If everyone at the tourney is a professional, they only get paid when they're playing and they wouldn't have any incentive to take a day off to operate.

[HedyG]

no Roland, this isnt embarrassing, it is absolutely shocking!

luxury suites in 5* hotels?

bring the whole family on a holiday? including mother and mother-in-law?why not charter a plane while we are at it?

eat in fancy restaurants?( i assume the operators didnt get to eat there?)

and no money to pay the (low)expenses of vugraph operators for junior events?

where does the WBF think the future of bridge is? who is going to pay for their expensive trips if not todays juniors?

please lets get our priorities right!

and one more thing: junior bridge rocks!!!!

[hrothgar]

no Roland, this isnt embarrassing, it is absolutely shocking!

luxury suites in 5* hotels?

bring the whole family on a holiday? including mother and mother-in-law?why not charter a plane while we are at it?

eat in fancy restaurants?( i assume the operators didnt get to eat there?)

I was one of the operators in Sydney

 

NickF took us all out for a most excellent chinese dinner. I'm a real food snob, and I consider this one of the best meals that I've had in a long time...

 

I'm quite thanksful tht the Aussies were able to provide hotel rooms for the operators (finally got me motivated to fly down to the antipodes)