asign the blame

[jocdelevat]

[hv=d=s&v=a&n=saj875h7dq853c973&w=skqt9432hatd2ckj8&e=s6hq8dajt97cat642&s=shkj965432dk64cq5]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     3♥

 3♠    Pass  4♥    5♥

 6♠    Dbl   Pass  Pass

 Pass  

 

West expert East star north-south doesn't matter.

Star said his 4H doens't promise spades and blame expert for biding 6s. He said expert should pass after 5h let him bid again. Expert took 4H as strong hand with spades support. contract failed by 3.

[mikeh]

East gets the blame.

 

East has a difficult hand, in that there are a number of layouts on which a minor suit contract, including a slam, may be making. However, he has NO fit for partner and a poor ♥ holding. In my view, he had several possible calls available, but 4♥ would not be one of those I'd consider. I agree with West: to me, 4♥ shows a fit.

 

4 minor would be natural and forcing, so if east wanted to force while showing his own suit, he can bid it. Of course, East wanted to show both suits, but he was guilty of a very common problem: he failed to think about how his auction would sound to partner: I strongly suspect that, if you were to spring this auction on him a year from now, after he had forgotten this hand, and ask him, in a problem format, what does 4♥ show (i.e. give the auction without any hands), he'd say it shows or probably shows a strong raise to 4♠... a hand too good to just bid game.

 

BTW, East might have survived had south not acted in an entirely bizarre fashion: bidding 3 then 5 is ridiculous. Unfortunately, for S's long term develpoment as a player, it 'worked', so consciously or subconsciously he will feel encouraged to bid as poorly in the future.

 

My choices as East would, in descending order of desirability, have been 4♠, 3N, 4♦, pass... and in a panel scoring contest I would award scores as 100, 90, 70 and 50... while not liking any of them. And I wouldn't argue vehemently that this is the right order or weighting: this is a tough layout.

 

3N would be clear if NS were not vulnerable.

[SoTired]

I would take 4H as a strong spade raise, too. But would pass 5H. West has great spades but only 1 ace and about the strength you'd expect for a 3S bid.

 

I don't know how 4H can be taken as "pick a minor" at this level. East should just pass 3S because the QH is worthless, no support for spades and only 2 empty aces to contribute. Notice that 5C does not make either. 3S was EW last chance for a positive (except for the lunatic 5H bid).

 

90% to East 10% to West

[kenrexford]

I would assume that if 4H agrees spades, 4H followed by 4NT is RKCB for spades, and a direct 4NT shows the minors. If this is the partnership approach, the error is obviously with East.

 

More likely no agreement existed. If no agreement existed (post-dfiscussion), then East and West much each assume a majority approach, where 4H shows a spade fit.

 

Thus, unless West forgot some unusual treatment here, East is 100% at fault.

[jocdelevat]

Hi all

I was south. I agree my bid was bizare, lunatic, ridiculos. Here is just a thought maybe wrong but worth to put it here. My thought when I bid 5h was to mess up their communication because if he cue bid my suit his partner bid after my weak my partner pass they found fit ( i took his cue bid as spades plus strong hand) they will have a hard time to double me instead of making slam.

I always have hard time to play in imps tourney for the following reasons:

1.im beginner-intermediate which imply mistakes, confuse, not clear view of biding etc.( trying to improve by reading books and use this forum. I never read a bridge book).

2. Imps tourney in my opinion is good to play with a regular parner than with the one from partnership desk so in my case I don't have one. My friends are beginner-intermediate too so our conventions are poor and without any agreements. Very hard to compete in this case. Bridge is still a game( not science) and like any player I like to win.

3. 3 nights in a row I change my strategy at imps by pushing opps to high level in competitive auction and seems to work very well. Trying to set opponnents seems to work better than trying to win your contract.

 

 

Thanks for your comments. I always apreciate it

best regards

jocdelevat

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I would say, that East is correct, that the

cue does not promise a spade fit, it usually

does, but there are circumstances, when

the cue is made on a hand without a fit.

 

Of course, if you make the cue without a fit,

you should have add. strength to compensate

for your lack of strength, ... strength East is

missing.

If one would simply ask East, where he does want

to play oppossite a mediocrite 5-6 card spade suit

and 12 count, what would he say?

 

Regarding the 3H / 5H bidding:

If you learn only one thing about comp. bidding, then

it hopefully is the following, if you make an preeempt,

make it as high as you dare (maybe even overbidding

a bit, they wont be able to punish you quite often),

but after that shut up.

In other words, simply bid 4H.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Finch]

There was a very similar hand to this in a recent Bridge World (either May or August, they don't arrive very regularly or indeed in order on my side of the Atlantic). It was in the bidding competition, where they give bidding problem to a range of experts and ask for opinions.

 

I can't remember it exactly, but it was a similar auction (3D pre-empt, 3S overcall) and the East hand had fewer high cards but a slightly better shape (it was something like Qx A10xxx x A10xxx). The vast majority of experts (mainly North American) either said or assumed that the cue bid was a good spade raise, but there were a couple of notable exceptions who said that it should not be, but just a general force.

 

So there isn't 100% consensus, but there is a strong majority in favour of it being a good raise.

[Walddk]

I agree with MikeH. 4♠ seems right. It's ok to raise with a singleton when partner has introduced a suit at the 3-level, vulnerable. You have compensating values in the minors.

 

3NT is also a fair shot. They rarely have a solid or close to solid suit when they pre-empt, and even if South has AKJ.... he may be reluctant to cash both honours now that you have announced a heart stopper.

 

Roland

[whereagles]

I believe 4♥ should always show a raise. At this high level you don't have enough bidding space to show your hand after a cue, so that cue must be a very well defined hand. Otherwise you will be making your already hard post-preempt life even harder.

 

On the actual hand, honestly I would bid

 

3♥ 3♠ pass 3NT

 

The hand is misfitted and no-where near strong enough to insist on a minor. Better just take your last chance to use Hamman's rule #3 ("If 3NT is an option, bid it.") Pard would then correct to 4♠, but to shoot 3♠-4♠ without knowing he has 6+ spades seems double-dummy to me...

[the hog]

I believe 4♥ should always show a raise. At this high level you don't have enough bidding space to show your hand after a cue, so that cue must be a very well defined hand. Otherwise you will be making your already hard post-preempt life even harder.

 

On the actual hand, honestly I would bid

 

3♥ 3♠ pass 3NT

 

The hand is misfitted and no-where near strong enough to insist on a minor. Better just take your last chance to use Hamman's rule #3 ("If 3NT is an option, bid it.") Pard would then correct to 4♠, but to shoot 3♠-4♠ without knowing he has 6+ spades seems double-dummy to me...

Good grief! Whereagles agreed with me in a previous post and now i wholeheartedly agree with him. What is the world coming too? 4H should ALWAYS show a raise. East is to blame 100%

[helene_t]

As usual (lol) I agree with Ron and Whereagles etc.

 

But "Expert" West might get a (small) part of the blame for bidding 6♠ when a forcing pass is an option. Then East will double, and West can pass that.

[pclayton]

FWIW:

 

West is good enough for an immediate 4♠ I think.

 

East's 4♥ is a good spade raise. Why? 4 of a minor is forcing, so the cue isn't needed for anything else. (note: rereading Frances' comments - I agree; the cue could also be something nebulous like: xx, Axx, AKxx, KJxx).

 

6♠ isn't outside the realm of reason.

[pclayton]

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