the hog Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Has anyone looked at "The Way Forward"? This is an English bidding syste, based on a strong C, and loosely built around "The Science". It is devised by Ed Sheldon. Peter Leighton might like this:Strong C5 cards H4 cards S - the S opening can be quite weak and is used as a light pre empt and can certainly be canape.Many fit showing gadgets, and some but not many GF relays eg 1H 2C.I wonder whether this would be GCC legal in the States. I had a good look at this over the last week and it is beautifully constructed and, I would guess, could be very effective. (Email if you want a copy) Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTodd13 Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I have a website. I can host the file if you don't have awebsite yourself. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Warning - this post veers from the topic, and complains about the GCC >B) Ron- I have a document "The Way Forward", which I got off the Cambridge Bridge Society website, when I was first investigating The Science, with this identifying information:"Summer Version: 23/6/96Ed SheldonAlistair FlutterJon Cooke" Is this what you are referring to? If so, people can download it at: http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/bridge/#systems It is indeed a very interesting system. From my knowledge of the GCC, no way. 1S-2C is a relay, which is Mid Chart. Also, 1D-1H is "Hearts or a game-forcing relay or a balanced 12-count", which is multi-way. I'm sure Richard will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I am getting depressingly familiar with the GCC. It would also cause my pd to experience an inadvertent bowel movement :) We have been playing The Science (at least the bastardized form I discussed with you) for 6-7 weeks now, and love it. Pd has gotten over fear of 4 card majors, as they are restricted to hands with <14hcp, and are therefore controllable. He is amenable to a strong club version of something like The Science, but won't consider anything that is too complicated to start with. I have been researching and analyzing our options. The feedback I got from an rgb post was somewhat depressing, as it appears the GCC effectively limits 2/1 responses to either GF or forcing for one round, since transfer responses and relays are both Mid Chart. Richard had a post which was typically pungent and helpful (as he could be). This means, I think, that openers should be no lower than the decent 10s we are using now. WAAAAHHH! We will probably wind up in a fairly simple strong club, 16+, 14-16 NT, 4 card majors, openers 10+ - 15, canape openers on 5C4M hands, and maybe also 5D4H hands. 2/1 forcing for one round. Any suggestions welcome. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 "Pungent"? I've become pungent? Not sure what to saythen again, I'm crocked on home made rice "jiu" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Can "pungent" describe a crock pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Sniff SniffSigh Unloved, unappreciated , as always ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 Yes Peter, it is one and the same. I am amazed this is not legal in the States; your system restrictions are tougher than I thought. So does this mean even a GF relay is not allowed. I thought you could relay, provided it was GF, and not like Moscito where it could be invit. Tell me, are you allowed to play Stayman over there? It is a relay and can be strong or weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTodd13 Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 From ancient memory, relays aren't completely bannedbut I thought you had to start with a natural bid andafter that you could relay. Give the ACBL time and allmethods of bidding whereby one person shows theirhand and the other hides it will be illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 My understanding is that "relay systems" are legal under the GCC only:1) after a strong club opener which guarantees at least 15 hcp.2) starting at the opener's rebid or later. So a 1S-2C relay is Mid Chart. Dwayne Hoffman's Key Lime Precision uses the following approach to get around it, which he says is legal:1NT forcing after 1M can contain weak (with 2 trumps), invitational, and GF hands. The weak hands always rebid 2 of the bid suit, or pass if the opener rebids his suit. 2/1 responses are nonforcing. Invitational and strong hands start a relay, which he says uses the Viking Club system. Therefore the relay "starts" on the responder's rebid. Ingenious, but seems impractical for 4 card majors. "... the tangled web we weave.." Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 So according to that definition, Stayman is illegal, as responder to 1N is relaying. As an aside, how/where is GCC played as opposed to Mid chart? What would a club play? Do they have a choice? What about a reasonably serious event eg a Regional? Further questions, can anyone play Flight A events or do you have to have a certain number of MP to qualify for them? Are Flight A GCC or Mid chart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 The GCC bans relay systems, not relays. Sadly, the definition of relay systems is pretty poorly constructed: "A sequence of relay bids is defined as a system if, after an opening of one of a suit, it is started prior to opener's rebid." The Choice of GCC versus Midchart really depends on the sponsor and varies widely by region.Please note that playing Midchart methods requires that the ACBL approve a suggested defense. The ACBL Conventions Committee doesn't approve very many defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 In my state (Connecticut) sectionals are GCC. The TD at my club is somewhat flexible, and would let me play the Multi (for example), but he said there is no chance I could play any Mid Chart stuff in a sectional, even if I played in the A flight. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 My old District (District 25) has just approved the Superchart for all Flight A KO events.I REALLY need to move back to Boston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 The Choice of GCC versus Midchart really depends on the sponsor and varies widely by region. So this means that there are no uniform regulations across the States, even in regionals? Sorry but this is weird. If I play a regional in Boston I can play Superchart stuff, but if I play a regional in Connecticut, I have to play GCC stuff? And the 2 events carry the same weight/prestige? I'd have to change my system as often as I change my underwear. Its no wonder that many only play GCC stuff if you play a bit. At least here our regs are uniform so if I play in an event in NSW I can play the same stuff as I play here in Victoria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted November 23, 2003 Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 "If I play a regional in Boston I can play Superchart stuff, but if I play a regional in Connecticut, I have to play GCC stuff?" Actually it's even weirder than that. Connecticut is in District 25. Regionals are governed by one body, sectionals by another. Go figure. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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