adhoc3 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 You've agreed 2/1 with bergen things. Pard opened 1S, turn to you. 1st hand:[hv=s=sqxxxxhxxdxxxcjxx]133|100|[/hv] 2nd hand:[hv=s=sqxxxxhxxdxxxcjxx]133|100|[/hv] Assume it's IMP games and both vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Might depend on circumstances. Isn't there an option of bidding 4♠ with neither hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Not unusual with spades to bid one level lower than LOTT on many hands. Often with no shortness. It is fine to play full Bergen ..just make sure you know....full Bergen.....which does not mean ..bidding 4 level with all ten card fits. I will repeat that Bergen and LOTT does not say bid 4 level with all ten card fits! So to answer to your question, yes I bid to full Bergen, LOTT level on this hand....just know what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhoc3 Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Might depend on circumstances. Isn't there an option of bidding 4♠ with neither hand? Probably I shall list an option for "neither", which allows non-bergener vote:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I would vote for neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Neither. 1) Even 3S does not really fit the bill. I would settle for 2S.2) 3S, although 4S is in the picture. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker_gib Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 1) 3♠2) 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 hand 1: no way hand 2: perhaps, if the vibes at table are right. Under normal circumstances, nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 1) 3♠2) 4♠ Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchett Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 1. 3♠2. This is too strong for 3♠ as I play it, so the choice would be a mixed raise or 4♠ and of these choices I prefer 4♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 1. 3♠2. 3♣ (or whatever shows 6-9 or 6-7) I don't like to bid 4♠ on any of the hands, since I don't have a shortness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 1> 3S this is a pail and I hope we do not get killed. 2. 4S I hope it makes and 3S is a close second choice. With my lho holding perhaps the best hand at the table I think hand 1 exerts to most pressure. Hand 2 may be able to make 4S with some good fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I think 3S is plenty on the first hand. If partner wants to contest their heart game he can do so. On the second hand I'm less sure. I guess I just bid 2S. I like partner to be confident I will produce a stiff if he has to decide at the five level what to do. Bergen allows for a 4D bid to show a raise to 4S that is not complete trash, but I still want a singleton somewhere. Since I don't much play the Bergen style I looked this up (Better Bidding with Bergen, v1, page 41) and his examples of both the direct raise and the raise via 4D show stiffs. I would stick to this, regardless of how 4S might work out on these particular hands. So mark me down for "neither". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 You've agreed 2/1 with bergen things. Pard opened 1S, turn to you. 1st hand:[hv=s=sqxxxxhxxdxxxcjxx]133|100|[/hv] 2nd hand:[hv=s=sqxxxxhxxdxxxcjxx]133|100|[/hv] Assume it's IMP games and both vulnerable. 1. 3♠2. 3♣ Why not involve partner in the decision of bidding 4♠? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Indeed, 3C on the second instead of my 2S. Not being a usual player of Bergen, I forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 I wouldn't bid 4S on either.The second looks like a down-the-middle mixed raise (3C or 3D depending which way round you play Bergen). The first is either a pass or a pre-emptive 3S bid, depending on vulnerability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Thou shalt not blindly apply the Law on 5332 hands. 8 or 9 losers.3 Spades on hand 1 seems good. The second hand is more difficult to assess. If I feel pushy i would bid 4S at imps as it's approximately a 7-loser hand, but otherwise I might just invite. IMO, the 5th spade makes the hand one loser too good for a mixed raise. Change either hand to 5431 distro and I'm bidding 4. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Since this Topic asks if one "is a true Bergener?", how many out there are familiar with or have played Bergen's minor suit raise structure? How many play Bromad? DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Never 4S on hand one. For goodness sake, look at it. The question is do I bid 3S. My 3S "promises" and nothing in hcp. But of course, the type of game, MP or IMPS might factor into the equation, and vulnerability certainly will. I guess I will bid 3S most of the time, but pass is in the mix on occassion. Hand 2 is also not 4S. This is a nice hand, with potential. Use some bid that investigates the correct level. However, I would not be upset at a partner who bid 4S on this one opposite me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Since this Topic asks if one "is a true Bergener?", how many out there are familiar with or have played Bergen's minor suit raise structure? How many play Bromad? DHL I play pretty close to full Bergen including Bromad and Bergen's version of Jacoby 2nt. I Play CrissCross for minor suit raises.FlipFlop in comp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 1. 3♠2. 3♣ (or whatever shows 6-9 or 6-7) I don't like to bid 4♠ on any of the hands, since I don't have a shortness... ditto.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 It's too easy for 4S to be doubled since the opps may have no reasonable alternatives. I'd like a stiff or void to bid 4S so 3S is enough with hand 1. Hand two has the constructive 4 card raise available to see if 4S can make. OK you have 5 spades, but you only have 6 HCP. More interesting is whether to accept a game try after this bid (3C or 3D depending if Rev Berg) and also what to do if the opps compete to 4H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffmcgow Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I would apply the New Law (Wirgren/ Lawrence) Assuming 13 working points for partner and (optimistically) a doubleton diamond this would suggest bidding 2♠ on 1. and 4♠ on 2. If I was pessimistic (e.g. just conceded 800) I would bid 2♠ and 3♠ respectively For those who have read the book "I Fought the Law of Total Tricks" I like to use the formula suggested by Louis Brickman on the newbrigelaw.com site (question 13.) Compared with the tables of WP and SST in Lawrence's book, this is so much easier and quicker to apply in the heat of battle. (PS This is my first post so I hope I haven't done anything wrong. I see replies on some other Bridge forums and would be terrified to enter a reply :) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have to admit that there is no hand that I can hold at any vul or any scoring playing Bergen that doesn't bid more than 2S with 5 trumps. Neither of these hands looks like 4S to me since the distibution is flat. It is MUCH easier to be doubled in 4S than in 3S on these hand-types. .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 (PS This is my first post so I hope I haven't done anything wrong. I see replies on some other Bridge forums and would be terrified to enter a reply :) ) So far so good. Welcome to the Bridge Base Forum. Unlike other sites, we have forum moderators. You will not see the sme type of exchanges here as you see on other bridge forum sites. At least five people routinely "police" the post, but by far and away, the users here are civil all the time so they (well we0, have actually little to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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