jillybean Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Dealer: West Vul: None Scoring: IMP ♠ AQ6 ♥ J75 ♦ K852 ♣ J86 West North East South 3♣ 3♠ 4♣ 4♠ 5♣ Pass Pass ? Is pass an option here? tyiajb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 My rule for the 5-level is: IF we have shown at least invitational values or bid a game constructively, a pass on the 5-level is forcing. Since they preempt partner's 3♠ is constructive. Although this is not so clear for 4♠ the 3♠ bid in combination with the 5-level makes pass forcing for me. This is likely not the "only" answer, will be interesting to see what others say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 No. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 In theory it probably depends to a degree on vulnerability; in practice it is probably forcing. For simplicity, my rule is whenever our side has shown substantially the balance of power then pass is forcing. Here, 3S bidder shows some extras by competing at the 3-level and pard has raised to game showing around limit raise values - ergo, the balance of power is on our side and the pass becomes forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 A couple of rules you might consider: 1) direct raises never establish forcing pass. 2) if we bid vul game and they bid on, pass is forcing. Thse confict here. For me pass is not forcing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 If you are looking for a simple version of what is forcing pass, try this:1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.2) otherwise pass is not forcing. Clearly pass is forcing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Depends on who you ask. If its me Id say NF, since RHO is an unpassed hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 i'd say pass here is not forcing.. partner bid 3♠ he didn't double... i agree with phil... that isn't to say mike's point re: punishing them because you think you had a vulnerable game is wrong, just that it shouldn't be a p'ship trainwreck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 I like pass to be forcing here, but I don't think that's standard. Anyway, pass is not an option with this hand. Double is clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 One rule that is useful against weak players is that if pre-emptor bids again then passes are forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 If you are looking for a simple version of what is forcing pass, try this:1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.2) otherwise pass is not forcing. Clearly pass is forcing here. Which bid is the game try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 If you are looking for a simple version of what is forcing pass, try this:1) Any time we make a game try and they outbid us, a pass is forcing.2) otherwise pass is not forcing. Clearly pass is forcing here. Which bid is the game try? 4S? Marlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 This looks like an obvious double whether or not pass is forcing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wackojack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Yes obvious double here. Suppose, however, you take away 2 clubs from the South hand and make them 2 small hearts. It now matters what you make of North's pass. How many clubs do opps have between them and how many spades for the NS total? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Thanks for the replies, here's the full hand [hv=d=w&v=n&n=skt9542hqt43da76c&w=sj73ha9d9ckqt7532&e=s8hk862dqjt43ca94&s=saq6hj75dk852cj86]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South 3♣ 3♠ 4♣ 4♠ 5♣ Pass Pass Dbl RDbl Pass Pass Pass 5♣XX= (corrected) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'm so confused.why did West redouble?why did it go off? what drugs were North on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Quick comment: I was North on this hand. I readily admit that I am not proud of my overcall. I would have preferred to have a better suit and more defense. With this said and done, I was worried that my club void implied that partner would have some club length. I figured that if I passed there would be a lot of hands where we'd defend 3 clubs with a Spade game available. I'm also not sure whether I should take action over 5C or after 5CXX...I don't consider either pass or 5♠ clear cut. In the end, the 3S overcall got what it deserved since 5CXX made without much trouble. Like you, I have no idea where the XX of 5♣ came from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 correction contract was 5♣XX= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Pass is nonforcing here. They have bid and raised freely in competition. I don't think the 3♠ overcall is that bad, but I do think leaving the double and then the "interesting" redouble in with a void is begging disaster, especially at IMP scoring. I'd yank it to 5♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Quite the bidding by west: I suppose that one could 'justify' the 5♣ on the basis that he can play east for very short ♠'s but why he redoubled is beyond me....was this online by any chance? Not that that means much :lol: As for the original question, for me the pass would be non-forcing... but I would have doubled anyway :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted July 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 Was the West player of Turkish nationality, perhaps? Please don't take this as offensive, but it is my personal observation that it is a national trait of players from that region to redouble almost any doubled contract to try to bluff the opponents into pulling. It is not just them, of course, but for no reason that I can fathom my personal experience is heavily weighted in favour of that region undertaking this manoeuver. I wonder if BridgeBrowser has the mechanism to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted July 3, 2006 Report Share Posted July 3, 2006 I might be biased by the fact that North was Richard :) but I think that the 3♠ overcall as well as the final passes were acceptable. For what it's worth I might have done the same. The fact that it turned out badly does not prove much. Sometimes you have to take chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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