General agreement on this one?

[mike777]

In 2/1 with Walsh is there general agreement on this auction?

 

1H=1S

2C=3D?

 

Assume 1h=3d=bergen raise.

[han]

Are we also playing kickback and Mexican 2D?

 

I am not sure if there is a general agreement on this auction, I know that some people play this as natural and strong, others may play it as a splinter.

 

 

[Commercial break: Arend's improvement of NSI uses 2D as a drop in hearts or any invitational hand, while 2H is an artificial game-force. All bids above 2S are natural and gameforcing. 3D would show 5-5 and some slam interest, great treatment!]

[SoTired]

BWS plays this as 5-5 invitational

[blackshoe]

I doubt it. B)

 

I would think it's splinter.

 

Not sure what Kickback (asking for key cards) and Mexican 2 ♦ (which is an opening bid) have to do with it. :P

[jdonn]

I doubt it.  B)

 

I would think it's splinter.

 

Not sure what Kickback (asking for key cards) and Mexican 2 ♦ (which is an opening bid) have to do with it. :P

I think 5-5 invitational is standard, but I prefer to play it as 5-5 game forcing. 5-5 invitational I would much rather just bid 2NT, and my way frees up 4th suit then rebid 4th suit as still unsure where to go instead of natural. Like

 

1♥ 1♠

2♣ 2♦

3♣

 

I would bid 3♦ on KQxxx Ax xxxx Ax since I think 3♥ should show real support. I can only do this if responder's 4th suit jump on the prior round is a natural game force.

 

Blackshoe, I think Hannie is making the same point that you are, just more sarcastically B) in other words, what do Bergen raises have to do with it either?

[mike777]

Ok then what do you guys do with your 4spades and longer D hands that are weakish?

1) Just drop the D suit?

2) Forget the spade suit and start with 1nt? even at MP?

 

I wanted to rule out 1h=3d as being natural, that is the reason for Bergen note, good grief.

[jdonn]

Ok then what do you guys do with your 4spades and longer D hands that are weakish?

1) Just drop the D suit?

2) Forget the spade suit and start with 1nt? even at MP?

3) Play Kaplan inversion of course.

 

If you aren't, then usually I will choose 1) (if partner rebids 1NT we still get to diamonds, if partner rebids 2♣ like here there is just nothing I can do), but will go with 2) if the spades are lousy and diamonds very good, like Jxxx x KQTxxx xx.

[keylime]

I treat it as G/F.

[pbleighton]

5-5 GF.

 

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

one standard agreement for the

jump in the 4th suit is, that it is natural

game forcing.

 

But that has nothing to do with 2/1, Walsh

and the rest.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS:I dont believe, that you can play it as inv.,

partner showed 9 card, min, you tell about

9-10 cards in the other suit ... i.e. you have

a missfit auction.

If you also miss the power of HCP, ... well

there are less obvious invitations for a penalty dbl.

[P_Marlowe]

Ok then what do you guys do with your 4spades and longer D hands that are weakish?

1) Just drop the D suit?

2) Forget the spade suit and start with 1nt? even at MP?

 

I wanted to rule out 1h=3d as being natural, that is the reason for Bergen note, good grief.

Hi,

 

it depends, if you hold a 7 card diamond

suit, bid 1 NT followed by a diamond bid.

 

Else bid the spade and forget about

diamond.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: Of course if you play Flannery, you can

ignore the 4 card spade suit.

[Kalvan14]

1♥-1♠-2♣-3♦: 6/+ diamonds, 4 spades, weakish hand (denies 2 hearts)

[Cascade]

I've given up on standard for more esoteric auctions.

 

I mean is there really a standard?

 

I wouldn't make this bid in a non-practiced partnership unless agreed.

 

In my regular partnership we play a jump in the 4th suit as natural. But we don't play 2/1 or anything like that.

 

Bid and rebid diamonds is either a cue for the last bid suit or nothing clear to say. Its never natural for me.

[cherdano]

Assuming we play Kokish after 2♣, I would guess this as 5-5, forcing. But BWS certainly makes sense.

 

Arend

[whereagles]

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that :)

[joker_gib]

5-5 GF

 

Alain

[han]

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that :)

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

[Echognome]

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that :)

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

A hand with 9 diamonds where you psyched a 1♥ opening?

 

Mirror behind partner's hand?

 

A 3♦ bid after 2.38 minutes hesitation?

 

A 37 point hand that opened 1♥?

 

Yeesh... no imagination... :)

[SoTired]

I think a weak 4-6 should choose between opener's suits. The jump to 3D on a weak 4-6 risks playing 3DX on a 6-1 or 6-0 fit, rather than 2C or 2H undoubled on a 5-2 fit.

 

I think the 3D jump on a weak 4-6 only applies to NMF.

[whereagles]

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that :)

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

Hum.. 17-18 hcp with 1534 and strong diamonds? Say

 

x

AKxxx

AKQ

Qxxx

[bid_em_up]

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that <_<

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

Hum.. 17-18 hcp with 1534 and strong diamonds? Say

 

x

AKxxx

AKQ

Qxxx

I suspect you mean AKxxx x AKQ Qxxx (partner opened 1♥, you bid 1♠ & 3♦).

 

But seriously, if you have this hand, you would/should bid 2♦ as 4th suit forcing, which kinda removes it from any discussion.

 

Got another example?

[kfgauss]

There isn't much sense in it being a weak bid (too high a level and into a possible misfit). I'd take that as a strong 55 with a random pard. Unless, of course, it were obvious from my hand it couldn't be that <_<

Give me a hand where you can see that partner can't be strong with 5-5?

Hum.. 17-18 hcp with 1534 and strong diamonds? Say

 

x

AKxxx

AKQ

Qxxx

I suspect you mean AKxxx x AKQ Qxxx (partner opened 1♥, you bid 1♠ & 3♦).

 

But seriously, if you have this hand, you would/should bid 2♦ as 4th suit forcing, which kinda removes it from any discussion.

 

Got another example?

No, this was an example of a hand where you would supposedly "know" that partner doesn't have a GF 5-5 ♠+♦ hand.

 

I'm not sure why partner can't have something along the lines of

 

AKJxx

x

J109xx

Ax

 

though.

 

Andy

[whereagles]

I'm not sure why partner can't have something along the lines of

 

AKJxx

x

J109xx

Ax

 

though.

The 3♦ jump should be descriptive and thus show honors concentrated in the main suits. Your hand is probably better suited for a 4th suit forcing 2♦ bid.

 

But sure, some might consider this good enough for a jump on a 55.

[HeartA]

Hum.. 17-18 hcp with 1534 and strong diamonds? Say

 

x

AKxxx

AKQ

Qxxx

Well, with this hand, I would rebid 3D especially if pd rebid 2H, unless pd passed over my 2C.

[whereagles]

Hum.. 17-18 hcp with 1534 and strong diamonds? Say

 

x

AKxxx

AKQ

Qxxx

Well, with this hand, I would rebid 3D especially if pd rebid 2H, unless pd passed over my 2C.

Fair enough, but do keep in mind that your view is likely not to be shared :P