what to bid

[jdonn]

You stated three reasons partner would potentially stretch to bid 5♣.

 

it makes

it's a good save against their making game

it pushes them higher

 

Exactly which of those possibilities don't apply to us on this round?

 

Your example auction of

1H P 2H P

P 2S P ?

has nothing to do with anything, this discussion is about taking a bid or not over a bid by the opponents.

 

Your second example

1H P 4H 4S

5H ?

You ask if we bid 5♠ very often and the answer is of course not. But do we have 5 card support very often?

[hatchett]

Exactly which of those possibilities don't apply to us on this round?

 

it makes....double gets you there sometimes anyway

 

 

 

it's a good save against their making game....the chance of their game making must be very low....

 

 

it pushes them higher....possible if LHO has been snorting the same drugs as RHO before the session. That's why I asked what the standard of oppoents was. The superficial evidence is that they aren't very good. If 2S is a normal weak two, 5S is undisciplined. Once you have decided your hand is a weak 2 that is that, unless partner invites you to make a decision. Of course it was impossible for RHO that he partner held AJxxx club.

 

 

 

 

Out of interest were you going to bid 6C if RHO passed?

[jdonn]

it makes....double gets you there sometimes anyway

 

it's a good save against their making game....the chance of their game making must be very low....

 

it pushes them higher....possible if LHO has been snorting the same drugs as RHO before the session.  That's why I asked what the standard of oppoents was.   The superficial evidence is that they aren't very good.  If 2S is a normal weak two, 5S is undisciplined.  Once you have decided your hand is a weak 2 that is that, unless partner invites you to make a decision.  Of course it was impossible for RHO that he partner held AJxxx club.

 

Out of interest were you going to bid 6C if RHO passed?

The first point suggests you completely ignorred my original post. You aren't getting rich off 5♠ unless they are snorting those drugs you are referring to. 5♠ was a VERY unusual bid by a weak two bidder. I would say 500 is average for what we will get, with 200 and 800 both possible and anything else less likely.

 

The second, likewise. I would say they are making around 10-15% of the time. We are surely taking no club tricks, and the spade king for all we know may not be a trick.

 

As for the third, why shouldn't LHO want to take a cheap save vs our slam that could be making for all he knows?

 

[hv=n=shaxdkqxxckqtxxxx&w=saxxxhkt9xxxdjxcx&e=sqjt9xxhxxdaxxxxc&s=skxxhqjxdxxcajxxx]399|300|[/hv]

 

It's true the standard of opponents matters a great deal, and I'm much less likely to want to bid vs bad opponents. But I don't look at 5♠ and say they must be terrible, it's a bridge problem and I solve it on the basis of opponents knowing what they are doing, meaning the 2 bidder has a very shapely hand, probably where he was planning on taking a second bid if his partner never bid.

 

I was not bidding 6♣ if RHO passed, but of course then the points about pushing them up and about having a good save are moot.

[keylime]

I bid six clubs, automatic.

 

1. I fear they may rack 5♠ for the clubs will be worthless.

 

2. On freak hands, it's best to declare not defend in my eyes.

 

3. Pard found a call at a high level. Pass is no longer an option from me.

[hatchett]

Yeah sure I can construct hands as well. Anyway you have to double on the East cards if you want to bid again.

 

The first point suggests you completely ignorred my original post.

 

I meant double gets you to 6C sometimes when it's right not that the penalty will be enormous. I play double can be pulled by an exceptional hand. It shows high cards and most probably some likelihood of a trump trick. Maybe you play double differently.

[jdonn]

I know anyone can construct hands where they could be right. I only did that because you made it sound like the opponents would have to be insane to save if I bid slam, and I am just trying to show that it could easily be right for them to do so. Of course it could also be wrong, more likely that it will be wrong in fact, but saving is certainly a plausible consideration for them.

 

I play double essentially as you do. Sorry I misunderstood what you meant on that one. I thought you meant the penalty from doubling gets you there, not that doubling lets partner bid it.