matchpoints on 65 red hand

[pigpenz]

matchpoints nv vs nv

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=shq87654da7654cq7]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

auction:

1♣ your call?

[Blofeld]

I'm bidding 3♥.

[pigpenz]

question if you bid that high then bidding 2nt probably would be best i would think

[Blofeld]

You're welcome to bid 2NT, but I'd rather bid 3♥, thanks.

 

It puts more pressure on the opponents. It's passable, and it only shows one suit while 2NT is likely to help them both bid and play the hand. Hearts score better than diamonds if they make, partner is likely to take preference to diamonds with equal length in the two, and this hand may well play better in hearts even if partner's diamonds are a card longer. The advantages might be bigger with other suits, as admittedly we'll get to play at the same level in diamonds as we would in hearts, but this isn't a big deal.

 

Against that, bidding 3♥ rather than 2NT gives up on playing in diamonds. It's a risk I'm prepared to make.

 

With the red suits reversed I'd probably bid 2NT.

[pbleighton]

I would bid 3H not vul. If vul, I would bid 2NT.

 

Peter

[Miron]

I would bid Michaels cuebid. In common method it is 2♠. I rather bid 10 cards then 6, esp. when I want my partner to bid at 5th level.

 

Imho: If it would be really necessary I can show better hearts later:

 

1♠ - 2♠ - x - pass!

pass - 3♥

where pass is "do it yourself"

 

1♠ - 2♠ - 3♠ - pass

4♠ - 4NT

or

1♠ - 2♠ - 4♠ - pass

pass - 4NT

(or similar)

4NT = hearts better then minor (otherwise 5♣♦). But this has to be in partnership agreement. It makes sence but should be discussed. BTW: in the follow up bidding partner pass the first round after 4NT (doubled or not) if he wants to know the minor. He may bid 5♣♦ as "this or hearts".

[Blofeld]

The opening was 1♣ rather than 1♠, Miron.

[mike777]

"Against that, bidding 3♥ rather than 2NT gives up on playing in diamonds. It's a risk I'm prepared to make."

 

1H, Mr. Conservative

 

I heard about that 65 come alive stuff and partner is an unpassed hand and we are NV. Will be interested in how players bid this one.

[pbleighton]

"1H, Mr. Conservative

 

I heard about that 65 come alive stuff and partner is an unpassed hand and we are NV. Will be interested on how players bid this one."

 

Mike, I can understand a conservative player's aversion to a WJS, but...

 

Do you play Michaels? If you do, what would you have to change about this hand in order to get you to bid 2NT?

 

Peter

[mike777]

"1H, Mr. Conservative

 

I heard about that 65 come alive stuff and partner is an unpassed hand and we are NV. Will be interested on how players bid this one."

 

Mike, I can understand a conservative player's aversion to a WJS, but...

 

Do you play Michaels?  If you do, what would you have to change about this hand in order to get you to bid 2NT?

 

Peter

 

I should say I would bid 2nt in flash with the below. I am starting to bid Michaels hands less and less.

I would in a flash with 5-5 and my club honors in hearts, maybe even without NV, maybe even with 5H and 6D. Partner being an unpassed hand makes me nervous. Make her a passed hand and I change my tune.

Do not want to violate the Law here so I would not bid 2nt or 3H...2h is very close.

 

OTOH I expect many to ignore the law with 6-5 shape and a void in spades so I find this a very interesting thread.

[bid_em_up]

I'm the dummy that voted for pass.....I didnt read the whole question and thought I was being asked what my opening bid was. :blink:

 

Ignore it, and change to 2N. Get both suits in play. For all you know you have a good diamond sacrifice over the opponents likely black suit contracts but you will never find it if you dont show both suits, unless of course, you intend to bid diamonds freely on your next turn. Personally, I dont like that style of bidding, as it becomes a one-man show style, instead of involving partner to make rational decisions at the table.

[whereagles]

Hum.. 2NT seems normal, but the suits are so weakish that 1♥ is safer. I guess it would depend on tactical considerations.

[pigpenz]

im not saying i would bid 2nt but that if your bidding 3♥ then bidding 2nt shows your shape and takes up space all the way to the three level

[hotShot]

2NT

somebody has lots of ♠. If it's opps, they may bid 4♠ before i can show my 2nd suit. If it's partner i better tell him, that ♠ is no suit for us to play.

The true strength of my hand is it's distribution, and partner needs to know that.

[mike777]

2NT

somebody has lots of ♠. If it's opps, they may bid 4♠ before i can show my 2nd suit. If it's partner i better tell him, that ♠ is no suit for us to play.

The true strength of my hand is it's distribution, and partner needs to know that.

All of this seems to be an argument for NV 1H overcall also.

1) IF the opp have spades, they are not breaking well, and they may misplace hcp's.

2) If Pard has spades, my NV MP 1H bid does not promise long spades with him. :).

[pigpenz]

so would are bids change then if we were vulnerable against NV???

I would think that the 3♥ bids might go away :)

but then matchpoints is alittle bid of tactics and insanity all rolled up into one.

[hotShot]

2NT

somebody has lots of ♠. If it's opps, they may bid 4♠ before i can show my 2nd suit. If it's partner i better tell him, that ♠ is no suit for us to play.

The true strength of my hand is it's distribution, and partner needs to know that.

All of this seems to be an argument for NV 1H overcall also.

1) IF the opp have spades, they are not breaking well, and they may misplace hcp's.

2) If Pard has spades, my NV MP 1H bid does not promise long spades with him. :).

I hate to state the obvious but ....

 

2NT is showing 10/ 13 cards, 1♥ shows 5/13. So while 2NT makes it quite clear partner should not expect ♠ cards, 1♥ does not.

 

2NT takes a lot of bidding space, opps have to introduce ♠ at the 3 level.

If LHO bids them the 3 level is lost for opps too. If RHO can bid ♠, it's sort of a reverse and he might need extra strength for that.

 

So i can't see how this is an argument for a 1♥ overcall too.

[mike777]

As I said make me Vul or have pard as a passed hand and alot of below changes.

 

2nt takes bidding space away at the cost of allowing them to describe their hand more. There is a tradeoff gain as well as cost. In fact the gain may be more than the cost. In other words 1H may have more preemptive value then 2nt. 2nt also misdescribes our hand telling partner we are 5-5. So we misdescribe our hand, misstate our honor location and let the opp gain alot by bidding 3S. The only question is do we gain more or less by bidding 2nt. Same goes for 3H.

 

IF you feel you gain more by this bidding then I understand. That is what makes this an interesting post listening to others experience with weak dist hands with few honors and poor spots.

 

Ya I think 1h describes this hand better than 2nt does but I like that many feel that 2nt shows this hand better. :) 2nt for me says 10 cards not 11 and says better honors and/or spots....but many disagree.

1 heart NV says 5+ hearts, no michaels, no unusual nt, no takeout x, no strong nt, no strong one suited hand, 8+ hcp......

 

I guess I just see too many opp bid underpoint games/slams when I pinpoint the dist and hands for them. Your experience may be different.

[pbleighton]

"so would are bids change then if we were vulnerable against NV???

I would think that the 3♥ bids might go away"

 

No kidding :)

 

Peter

[Double !]

As much as I dislike UNT, it often gives a blueprint for playing the hand or results in big minus numbers (at least for me), I would use it in this sequence before the opps have a chance to explore for a spade fit, and it pretty much describes my hand in one bid. Let partner take it from there. Pass might also be a winning action. I don't like using a 1-suited pre-empt such as 2 or 3 hearts because it describes a different type of hand and partner will never be able to evaluate the ODR potential of the partnership and be able to make an informed decision.

 

DHL

[hrothgar]

In many ways, this thread seems to be less about "what call would you make with the hand in question" but rather do you like playing U2NT over a 1♣ opening.

 

I wouldn't quite call this a textbook U2NT, however, its pretty damn close.

Yes, I have a sixth heart which makes 2♥ or 3♥ a bit more attractive, still, if I'm playing the convention, I'm gonna use it.

[mike777]

"The Unusual Notrump. Thank Al Roth for this convention. It is at the same time one of the best and the worst of conventions. All depends on how you use it."

 

In trying to find a textbook example for this bid over 1club I found this quote by Mike Lawrence.

 

Surprisingly I did not find online or in my books one example of what a textbook unusual nt bid looks like in this exact situation. I did find many warnings about using it. :).

 

Here is the Bridge Encyclopedia on unusual 2nt after a major:

5...4...KQ952....QJ9763

 

Hardy in Standard Bridge Bidding calls this a classic two suited preemptive bid of unusual two notrump:

7...84...KJT94....QJ987

 

He bids unusual nt here:

(1d)=2nt with:

85...QJ974..5....KJT85

 

(1C)=2nt=9....KJ972....QJT87....J2

[keylime]

I don't bid 2NT here. Hand has scattered values. Furthermore, if I trot out 2NT I don't think pard is going to go right on this hand at all for these reasons:

 

1. The two main suits are porous. No substantial suit quality.

2. I hold the Q-x of clubs. That might take a trick.

3. I am not going to hang pard if their five card suit is spades.

4. Against good opps, I'm going to get my lunch handed to me. For some reason, last few times I bid U2NT I get to play it doubled on my 5-2 fit with trumps 5-1 offside and pard having the wrong values. It's as if they are taking the sure money more often.

5. This in the hands of a good declarer, knowing my hand, is lethal for us.

 

My call - pass.

[Winstonm]

1H for me also. The lack of heart interiors and the fact I'm playable in 2 suits along with partner being unpassed all indicate to me that slow is best. Although a truly bad hand, the shape indicates I need to get in now while I can do so cheaply.

 

Quote Keylime: My call - pass.

 

This is my second choice, and third, and fourth, and......

[pclayton]

1♥ is fine; no reason to get excited now. I know there's a lot of spades out there and I know RHO (probably) doesn't have 5.

 

2N is silly with 6♥'s.

 

Pass is a mastermind .