another preempt decision

[mike777]

Ax.....QJxxx..xx...AKxx

2S=X=3S=?

Imps.

 

Pick your vul if it matters.

[helene_t]

4♥. We might miss slam but I don't see how to reach it.

[hotShot]

Since i obviously have no smart agreement with partner, i see 2 options.

 

1) 4♥ and the auction will end here

2) if dbl is not agreed as penalty i dbl, leaving partner space to describe his hand

[whereagles]

With the agreement that "dbl + correct 4m to 4♥" shows a stronger hand than a direct 4♥, that would be a good way to bid the hand.

 

Without that agreement, 4♥.

[Echognome]

I'm bidding 4♠. I certainly would be willing to bid 5♥ over 4♠, so why not show my control now? I know this may get us too high, but I'm willing to take the chance. I believe my hand is too good for a simple 'freebid'.

[whereagles]

I'm bidding 4♠. I certainly would be willing to bid 5♥ over 4♠, so why not show my control now? I know this may get us too high, but I'm willing to take the chance. I believe my hand is too good for a simple 'freebid'.

Aren't you being a bit over-optimistic? There is a good chance you have spade loser and that any red suit finesse will lose. You need either sizeable extras or some unexpected shape from pard to make 6, and 5 may be in jeapordy on a bad day.

[mikeh]

This is a heck of a problem. My 'solution' is 4♠

 

If he has perfect shape, a decent minimum makes slam: x AKxx Axxx Qxxx is a great 6♥, making on many layouts even if ♣ are 4-1.

 

If he has less than perfect shape, he will have extra values, and now 6♣ may be on: consider xx AKx KQxx QJxx... 3-2 trump break and we are home free, yet 6♥ has no play.

 

The lack of a big raise on my right is of dubious assistance, given that we do not even know the vulnerability.

 

4♥ looks like a huge underbid.

 

Double is responsive, but can be left in and will usually be left in by an extra-value less than perfect shape takeout double...in short, double is not this hand.

 

4♠ gets us by this round, and appears to be the value bid until one contemplates follow-ups.

 

If we are playing with a good partner, he can always haul out 5N over our 4♠ with extras...thus with the 2=3=4=4 hand I posited, 5N seems right over our 4♠...I think the hand I gave would be a minimum.

 

This means that if he merely bids 5m, we pass 5♣ and correct 5♦ to 5♥.

 

If he bids 4N, it is an interesting question as to what that means. If we were red v white, it is possible that he has a strong NT overcall, especially if our opps are juniors :D However, I would take it as asking me to bid a minor, with less than the values for 5N, and I'd bid 5♣

[jdonn]

Close decision, but I have a policy that I have regretted breaking many times of being conservative with Ax of a suit the opponents have bid and raised. So just 4♥.

[hatchett]

4♥ An underbid but 4♠ is an overbid. I prefer to take my plus score, since if I start with 4♠ I have no certainty of reaching slam when it is right or in the right strain and the 5 level might be too high.

[luke warm]

you have 5 controls... wouldn't you bid 4H with a 10 count? aren't you *supposed* to bid 4H with a 10 count? i think i'd bid 4S

[mike777]

I understand 4s but what do we do over partner's 5 level rebid? Let us assume he would rebid 5clubs or 5H?

[luke warm]

yeah, the 5c bid is the one i'd worry about... 6c could be excellent.. mikeh said he'd pass 5c, but i'd probably bid 6... to be consistent i guess i'd bid 6h over 5, but that's probably way wrong

[pclayton]

I tend to trust my opponents here. if its equal vul, its a lock pard has a doubleton spade.

 

This takes a lot of the fun out of 6♥. I need to pick up trump for no losers, and set up diamonds (or clubs in hand) for a spade pitch somewhere. Seemingly strong hands like: xx, AKxx, KQJx, Qxx make slam a losing prop. If pard has a barnburner, I hope he'll find a call over 4♥.

 

Oddly enough, if we are NV and the opps are vul, slam suddenly looks better given that pard probably has a stiff spade.

 

I'll stay fixed here and bid 4♥.

[mikeh]

yeah, the 5c bid is the one i'd worry about... 6c could be excellent.. mikeh said he'd pass 5c, but i'd probably bid 6... to be consistent i guess i'd bid 6h over 5, but that's probably way wrong

I would not raise 5♣ to 6...if we were playing matchpoints, and I had bid 4♠, I'd either bid 5♥ over 5♣, as a slam try in ♥, or raise to 6♣, because 5♣ making exactly 5 would be below average, losing to the multitude of 4♥ bidders. In fact, at mps, I would have settled for 4♥ myself... the reason I embarked upon 4♠ was that I was willing to pass 5♣.. I don't worry overmuch about an imp or two here if ♥ scores the same tricks. I was, however, willing to give partner a chance to show extras.

 

In other words, if he bids 5♣, I pay 1 or 2 imps to the 4♥ bidders. If he bids 5♦, I bid 5♥... I either break even (going down in 5♥ is extremely remote) or I get to 6♥ and either win big or lose big.

 

If he bids 5♥, I pass and almost certainly break even.

 

It is when he bids 5N or higher that my 4♠ pays and pays big: no 4♥ bidder is reaching slam... or if they are, they are missing grand.... consider how big partner has to be to move over 4♥, which could be bid on far, far weaker hands, especially those with 6+♥.

 

BTW, I respect jdonn's comment about Ax in an opponent's suit as a bad holding on these auctions, and that is why my planned auctions end so often at the 5-level. But for me, this is too slam oriented not to make a try.. which is all 4♠ is.

[Impact]

I am with the slam-try crowd.

 

In principle I agree with the 4S bid (as it keeps 6 or even 7C in the picture), but my 2nd choice (say 85 on MSC) would be a direct 5H bid, which might be even better if that first H pip was significant.

 

By contrast, remove the HJ and I am MUCH less sanguine about the whole hand (which might seem a little wimpy), but would still make a move - just

Out of interest how many would make the same move if the H & C were reversed?

 

To my mind this is a superprime 14HCP all in controls (including first round in their suit), with the exception of the HQJ which is my long suit....this is a slam try in my book opposite partner's takeout double which effectively forced to the 3-level.

[flytoox]

I would just jump to 6H and forget about science.

[cf_John0]

I prefer responsible DBl,

[HeartA]

I'm bidding 4♠. I certainly would be willing to bid 5♥ over 4♠, so why not show my control now? I know this may get us too high, but I'm willing to take the chance. I believe my hand is too good for a simple 'freebid'.

Count me as a 4♠ bidder as well.

[moysian]

4h is a sincere underbid; you have an ace more than necessary, plus a 5th heart.

 

cueing 4s probably induces P to bid a minor, and you're stuck again.

 

Maybe a jump to 5h is the best you can do. At least you are inviting 6 if P has extras.

 

 

Also, I don't give much stock to theory that the 3s bid assures that P has a doubleton spade. When I raise to 3s in that situation, it's because I want the opponents to "find" 4h. This can occur for two reasons:

 

- I have "stuff" that makes 4h apt to fail (not the case here), or

 

- I am convinced that they can make 6h, and want to give them to languish in 4.

 

On the flip side, if I don't want to defend 4h, I'll raise to 4s - trying to induce them into 5h (best I can do for the defense).

 

BTW, what if RHO's bid was 4s? Do you readers bid 4N? or 5h?