old bidding issue revisted

[mike777]

This is an old bidding issue I hope we can revist.

Please assume for this thread:

1nt opening=14-16 hcp...offshape ok.

Rebid of 1nt would be 11-13..never...14-16

 

xx....AKxx...KQxxx...Kx

 

What do you open?

 

It seems your choices are 1D or 1NT.

Keep in mind if the bidding goes 1D=1S...rebidding 1nt is not an option on this thread. Your pard is adamant that 1nt rebid cannot be this good.

[bid_em_up]

Please assume for this thread:

1nt opening=14-16 hcp...offshape ok.

Rebid of 1nt would be 11-13..never...14-16

 

xx....AKxx...KQxxx...Kx

 

What do you open?

 

It seems your choices are 1D or 1NT.

Keep in mind if the bidding goes 1D=1S...rebidding 1nt is not an option on this thread. Your pard is adamant that 1nt rebid cannot be this good.

If your system says 1N is 14-16, offshape ok, then why are you opening anything but 1N? Isnt that exactly what you have?

 

I must not understand the problem.

[Walddk]

Even if off-shape wasn't part of my agreement, I would open a 14-16 1NT. I do not want to rebid 2♦ over 1♠ and I am not even close to a reverse into 2♥.

 

Roland

[awm]

I'd bid 1NT with this hand without much thought.

 

The more interesting problem arises when one of your small spades is a small club (i.e. singleton spade). Now you will see a lot of different possibilities including opening 1NT, opening 1♦ and rebidding 1NT, 2♣, 2♦, 2♥....

[mike777]

Well here are 2 things to consider...worthless xx in other major and all those A-K make the hand suit oriented but yes....off shape is ok and often....but thanks for response.

 

Yes reverse here is not an option....you need excellent 17 to consider that option.

[kenrexford]

For what it's worth, I have heard from some excellent players that these types of hands lend themselves to a slight lie (or an agreed exception) allowing a 1H opening, followed by 2D. The idea appeals to me. Allow, in Standard, a canape auction when the hand is 5-4, suit-oriented, and in the 1NT opening range.

 

If partner raises the major, 4-3's are OK. If a preference call, complete pattern with 2NT, or perhaps a delayed preference.

 

Assuming this, these auctions could occur:

 

1H-P-2H-P-P-P (4-3 possible)

1H-P-1S-P-2D-P-2H-P-2S (5422, concentrated values)

1H-P-1NT-P-2D-P-2H-P-2NT (ditto above)

 

Not sure if this would be workable, but it seems good.

[mikeh]

1N, no real second choice.

 

Whether you can open 1♥ depends on style: if you went back 40 years, 1♥ would be the 'wtp' expert opening, at least in NA (not that I was playing bridge back then, but I have an almost full set of BW's)

 

20-30 years ago many NA experts would also consider 1♥ even in the context of an ostensibly 5 card major system, altho I think that by then it would tend to be the older experts who'd bid that way.

 

My suspicion is that very few NA 5 card major players would make this 'fudge'.

 

It causes havoc in constructive bidding. It prevents one from playing 1N when partner has a hand that would pass a 1N opening, and it begs for a 2♥ preference, after 1♥ 1♠ 2♦ on xx of ♥, even with Axx of ♦. And when partner has a big hand, you are never going to show the 5th ♦ without major distortion.

 

Thus I very much doubt that 1♥ would garner much support amongst 5 card majorites these days.

[luke warm]

1♥ wtp? ;)

[Kalvan14]

Opening 1♥ with 4 hearts and 5 diamonds is an idea which comes from original Acol. I've no problems in having uncertain lengths (I played Neapolitan club after all: it was a classic); however you must play a system where majors are four cards in principle. Bit awkward doing the same in a 5-card majors system.

 

IMHO, this hand is best opened 1N

[Finch]

If 1NT = 14-16 off-shape OK, then this is clearly a 1NT opener.