Expected ranges in NT rebids 2/1

[dosxtres]

Hi all.

 

Any one could clarify some expected NT ranges playing 2/1?

 

1. 1♠ 2♣ ?

 

Q1. 2N shows either balance hand with 12-14 or 18-19?

Q2. 3N shows a 15-17 balance?

 

2. 1♠ 2♣

2♠ ?

 

Q3. 2N shows balance with extras, 16H+?

Q4. 3N mininum 2/1. balance 13-15?

 

Anything important to add to NT rebids?

 

 

Thanks all.

[mr1303]

As responder on the second sequence, it's more common for 2NT to be 12-14 ish or 18-19, and 3NT to be 15-17, similar to opener's rebids. This is how it's suggested in Mike Lawrence's CD

[barmar]

Q1. Yes, 2N by opener shows a hand either too week or too strong to open 1NT.

 

Q2. If you open 1NT even with a 5-card major (as many do), then 3NT can't really be 15-17 balanced, since you would have opened it 1NT. So it's more likely to be semi-balanced, although most would show their second suit. That makes this an idle bid, and I'm not really sure how most play it.

 

Q3/Q4. I agree with mr1303. Most don't play "fast arrival" in NT.

 

Q3. One issue for partnership discussion is whether responder might bid 2NT with 2-card support for opener's major. This depends on whether opener rebids a 5-card suit if he doesn't have the other two suits stopped, or bids 2NT regardless of stoppers (so 2♠ promises 6+). Since many prefer the first style, you will often bid 2NT with 2 ♠, and opener needs to bid 3♠ on his third turn to show his extra length.

[xx1943]

Q2: 15-17 balanced is a 1NT opening, so 3NT is now an idle bid. Responder is unlimited, so let him show, his hand and don't take his bidding space by bidding like an kanguruh.

DONT JUMP WITH STRONG HANDS.

What if pd intened to raise spades gameforcing at his 2. turn and you bid 3NT. Now you are at the 4-level and don't know where to play and how high.

arghhhhhhhhhhh :unsure:

 

Jumps are to preempt the opponents not the partner.

[mr1303]

The idea is that after 1S 2C 3NT shows specifically 2 low in the 2/1 suit. Since the hand is well defined, responder should know how to proceed.

 

With a different kind of 15-17 NT, opener must bid something else.

[Stephen Tu]

Q2: 15-17 balanced is a 1NT opening, so 3NT is now an idle bid.

Only if you require all 5M332 15-17 to open 1nt, regardless of suit texture. Not everyone likes to play this way. If you do, of course you should use 3nt as showing some other specific hand that is otherwise hard to show.

 

DONT JUMP WITH STRONG HANDS.

 

I hate this mentality. The biggest flaw I see with most 2/1 players is failure to jump when appropriate. "I'm in a game force, so I'll just make a cheap bid that fails to define my hand, and guess what to do later". With both opener & responder refusing to define their hands or range, you end up in these murky cue-bidding auctions with neither sure if the other really has extra values, or just has a minimum cooperating in case the other has extras. Slams are randomly overbid to or missed as both sides are guessing.

 

I agree with mr1303. The rule should be:

- make your jumps well defined hands. It's OK to consume bidding space if the bid made carries enough information to allow good decisions.

- jump when your hand meets the definition.

[JohnnyH7]

The first auction depends on your agreements about what constitutes a 1N opener. As I would open 1N with all 5332 hands I prefer to play 3N as 5242 with 15-17. It uses up a lot of room but is descriptive.

 

On the second auction, I think 3N should show 15-17 with exactly 2 spades and balanced. 2N does not necessarily show a balanced hand, and is very often bid on unbalanced hand types in that auction so it should not have a specific range.