Free Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Partner opens 1♦ in 1st seat, RHO passes. You're playing standard 2/1 GF (so NO FANCY CONVENTIONS). You hold:[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s954ht63dk98cakj4]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] What do you bid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 I'll go with 1NT. I think the "textbook" bid with a balanced 11-12 is 2NT, but there are several reasons not to bid that. Besides wrong-siding the potential major suit lead, I don't expect to make 3NT with this hand opposite most balanced 14s. With 4333 shape the conservative action often works out well. While bidding a major could potentially right-side the notrump, it could also lead to playing in a 4-3 major fit with the 3-card holding in a totally flat hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Hey there... One very quick comment: Many people who play 2/1 game force don't treat 1♦ - 2♣ as game forcing. (Alternatively, if this is game forcing, they use 1♦ - 3♣ as invitational) On to the hand in question: The "value" bid is 2N showing balanced hand with roughly 11 HCP. This seems like a great description of the hand. Given all the tens, nines, and eights I certainly prefer 2NT to 1NT. However, I'm worried that both majors are wide open. I have the uncomfortable feeling that NT is going to play a lot better from partner's hand. Even so, I'm not willing to bid 1M on a three card suit with a 3=3=3=4 hand. I guess that my answer is "it depends". if 2♣ doesn't establish an absolute game force, I'm bidding 2♣. If it does, I'm bidding 2NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 I'll go with 2C. Shows where and what my values are pretty well I reckon. If partner passes it, we shouldn't be in too bad a spot. Edit: thought I was a passed hand. In which case, probably 2D might be better then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Richard's argument for 2C is good, but I still bid the textbook 2NT. It defines shape and strength quite well. 2C tends to show a bunch of clubs, and is unlimited. While 2C isn't a lie, 2NT is more truthful. Also, 1D-2C auctions can be klutzy, and revealing to the opps. This is definitely what I would do at the table, so why not at the Forum as well ;) I have to admit, I would like it better if more points were in the majors. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted May 20, 2006 Report Share Posted May 20, 2006 Why do you want the lead coming to your hand? Bid 2C. NT needs to play from the other side of the table, if thats where the hand belongs. Additionally, your values are concentrated in clubs, and 2C portrays this better than 2N will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 1nt easy so far and 100% ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 For those who want to bid 2♣, which is not absolute GF:What is partner supposed to do with 14HCP? What about 18-19? What about 12? For those who want to bid 1NT:What is partner supposed to do with 14HCP? What about 12? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 My impression is that there are two versions of 2/1 with regard to 2♣: (1) 2♣ is game force. Invitational hands with no major and no diamond fit bid 2NT (balanced) or 3♣ (long clubs). (2) 2♣ is game force except suit rebid. Invitational hands with no major and no diamond fit bid 2NT (balanced) or 2♣ followed by 3♣ (long clubs). In either case opener will not immediately distinguish strength on a balanced hand (2NT by opener over 1♦-2♣ is an acceptable rebid on 12-14 or 18-19) and responder is never going to pass opener's 2NT. If opener rebids 2♦ or 2M then 2NT by responder is forcing to game. Playing this style, I don't see 2♣ response as a real option. Obviously if you play that "balanced invites with no major go through 2♣" (in which case you may as well play direct 2NT is forcing) then 2♣ is a nice bid, but I don't think this is "standard 2/1" in any case. Bidding 1NT over 1♦, I expect that opener will pass with a balanced 12-14. I'm bidding this way because I don't expect to make 3NT opposite most balanced 14s, and I expect that if opener has a really nice 14 with a lot of tenaces and a five-card diamond suit he would open 1NT (upgrade). Of course one can quarrel with my hand evaluation (I don't rate unsupported Ts and 9s very highly and I downgrade a LOT for 4333). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbreath Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 hiI hate 'master-minding' the auction .. very destructive of partnership confidence.The only bid available to me without special p'ship agreements is 1NT , so thats what i bid.Rgds Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 "My impression is that there are two versions of 2/1 with regard to 2♣:" Adam, most of the 2/1 players I know play 1D-2C as forcing for one round, and responder may pass a 2NT rebid by opener (though he typically wouldn't, usaully having 6 cards). I live in the northeast U.S. I guess things are different where you live. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Dog: What would 2NT mean in your partnership? Isn't 1NT an underbid with 11 hcp? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Playing the standard 2/1, I'm quite surprised no one mentioned 2♦ would be Inverted Minor. While it would normally require 4 cards fit, it is quite a good picture of the hand: it does not give a wrong impression in terms of strength (as both 2♣ and 1N would), and right-sides NT (it also stressed the need for major stoppers). The standard 2/1 does not include 2N as a balanced hand 11-12 (or stronger): 2N is a weak pre-emptive raise in diamonds (the limit raise in diamonds is 3♦, again to right side NT; and the limit raise in clubs is 3♣). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 "The standard 2/1 does not include 2N as a balanced hand 11-12 (or stronger): 2N is a weak pre-emptive raise in diamonds" Where do you play, Kalvan? 2N as balanced invitational is standard 2/1 where I live. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Although you are not playing any fancy conventions, do you have any agreements as to opener's rebids after 1♦ 2♣ (where 2♣ is not GF)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 For those who want to bid 2♣, which is not absolute GF: 1. What is partner supposed to do with 14HCP? 2.What about 18-19? 3.What about 12? French style solution: 1. Rebid 2NT. Shows a balanced good 13 to 14. Now every bid by responder except 3♣ (broken suit) is game-forcing. This includes 3♦, by the way. 2. Rebid 3NT. 3. With balanced 12 or bad 13, open 1♣ despite having 44 minors or 4♦3♣. Incidently, my problem with this hand isn't whether pard has a balanced hand; it's if he's unbalanced with a singleton in a major. Because of this, I think 2♣ is preferable to some NT bid. Of course, if pard can't play cards, a NT bid is a no-brainer :) If it goes 1♦ 2♣3♦ I'll surely regret my 2♣ bid!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I bid 2NT, the classic bid, and everyone passes. LHO leads ♥4, 4th best. [hv=d=n&v=n&n=sj872hk5daqt72cq9&s=s954ht63dk98cakj4]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]It is now or never: 50% chance for a disaster. Do you play the K or the 5 in dummy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 The king, wtp? Ah.. of course, since this is a problem, LHO underled QJxx and low is the winning move.. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I had been in 2 NT too and see no reason now to play low from Kx.Low wins, if the lho has led low from QJx4 or if rho is so bad, that he will play the ace looking at AJx(x). So I play lho for the ace and take my king now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 For those who want to bid 2♣, which is not absolute GF:What is partner supposed to do with 14HCP? What about 18-19? What about 12? For those who want to bid 1NT:What is partner supposed to do with 14HCP? What about 12?Assuming that 2♣ is 10+ and that you are playing a 15-17 NT-opening, partner's2NT rebid shows 12-14 and his 3NT rebid shows 18-19. If he makes the 2NT rebid with 14hcp you risk missing 3NT with a total of 24-25hcp. If he makes the 3NT rebid with 14hcp he lies 4hcp and who knows where you end up. This is a typical problem in standard bidding (one that you can solve by playing one of those "fancy methods"). I choose the "practical 3NT" with 14hcp because I hate to miss a game in imps (and probably suffice with 2NT in matchpoints). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 I bid 2NT, the classic bid, and everyone passes. LHO leads ♥4, 4th best. Dealer: North Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP ♠ J872 ♥ K5 ♦ AQT72 ♣ Q9 ♠ 954 ♥ T63 ♦ K98 ♣ AKJ4 It is now or never: 50% chance for a disaster. Do you play the K or the 5 in dummy?This example shows that bidding 2♣ or 2♦ would have led to a better contract (2NT played by north, or even better: 3♦) Now, cross your fingers and put up the king... (playing low is against the odds) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 It is now or never: 50% chance for a disaster. Do you play the K or the 5 in dummy? That's the whole point, isn't it? It isn't a 50% chance for a disaster: playing the King is right if LHO has the ace. Playing low is only right if LHO has the QJ without the ace (and not QJ9 or he would have led the queen). So it's rather better than 2:1 in your favour to put the king up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 1♦:2♣, 2N has to be forcing unless you are using a lot of system. 1♦:2♣, 2♦:2N can be NF. 2♣ isn't ridiculous given the benefits of right-siding it but I'll stick with 1NT. I'm not a fan of 2NT, which is likely to get us too high from the wrong side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Partner opens 1♦ in 1st seat, RHO passes. You're playing standard 2/1 GF (so NO FANCY CONVENTIONS). You hold:[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s954ht63dk98cakj4]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv] What do you bid? 1D-?? Put me down for 2D! Inverted Minor Raise. Much as I like to have 4 pieces when I raise partner, I do have K98 and I dislike all my other bids even more. This also maximizes the chance that GOP will declare any NT contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Partner opens 1♦ in 1st seat, RHO passes. You're playing standard 2/1 GF (so NO FANCY CONVENTIONS). You hold:<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> North </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> N/S </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> 954 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> T63 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> K98 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> AKJ4 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end --> What do you bid? 1D-?? Put me down for 2D! Inverted Minor Raise. Much as I like to have 4 pieces when I raise partner, I do have K98 and I dislike all my other bids even more.I can live with 1d=1nt as a weak part of the system This also maximizes the chance that GOP will declare any NT contracts. Ok one more reason to not play inverted minors, put me down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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