Is (3D) 3S (P) 4D always a raise?

[kfgauss]

The poll says it all.

 

Andy

 

[Edit: Actually, if you have general agreements that certain bids are exclusion and certain ones are natural, and certain cuebids are always raises and certain others may not be, I'd love to hear your rules, as clearly I'm interested in related sequences as well.]

[Impact]

General agreement is that rubens advances still apply:-

 

since we are above 3NT (unless we bid 3NT) on this auctiuon:-

 

3NT= nat

4C= nat & forcing

4D= H

4H= good S raise, mildly invit to slam

4S= nat

4NT=Kickback because it is S suit, not because it is 4NT

5C= fit-showing & forcing to 5S (at least)

5D= void D, and slam try in S

5H= fit-showing in S and slam-try forcing to 5S

5S= bid slam with D control: I have the earth

5NT= GSF because it is S suit

 

extrapolations reasonably clear

[kfgauss]

Transfer advances are reasonable here. Essentially you're swapping 4D and 4H. Something I wonder, though, is whether the loss of the 4H punt over (3D) 3S (P) 4D; (P) ? is too much to give up for the ability to bid slam inv heart hands (and two-suited H-C hands) more easily.

 

An alternative is 4C = H, 4D = S raise, 4H = C. This gains the ability to give choice of games between 4H & 4S and loses times you have a 4-4 heart fit when advancer has long clubs (other gains and losses for hearts/clubs probably roughly cancel out). Not sure what framework this would fit into, but one can probably find some reasonable generalization.

 

I haven't thought about this much so there may be serious flaws. Any comments would be welcome.

 

Andy

[Finch]

I like the concept of transfer advances, but I don't play them (for the amount I play, the % chance of them coming up is very low and the % chance of someone forgetting them is thus quite high).

 

I don't play exclusion. It's never struck me as a very useful convention. And if I did, I certainly wouldn't play it in any suit other than diamonds on this auction.

 

If I had a slam hand with hearts I'd have to bid 4H, 5H or 6H.

[jdonn]

Exclusion requires suit agreement, otherwise it's just another example of the faulty premise that the only hands that matter are the ones with a fit for partner.

 

Bridge is simple. 4♥ shows hearts. 5♥ shows a better hand with hearts. And 4♦ promises support since if you had another suit you would bid it.

[joshs]

There are a few awkward hands such as:

2434 shape but no stopper

25xx shape and Hx in spades or weak hearts

 

So what 4D shows, depends on your partnerships bidding priorities.

 

Mine are "game before slam":

Cuebid is initally a strain search and only becomes a slam try if I bid again.

 

Many play this as a strong spade raise and just guess with the awk hands

 

I have never heard of anyone playing this as a generic slam force (cue-bid then 5H as a forcing and natural call) but its a perfectly fine treatment, especially in combination with the strain search cue-bid (note: cue bid then 5C is not needed to force since you had a forcing 4C bid available)