Official Water Cooler Cricket Thread

[paulg]

A good performance by England in winning the Test in mid-afternoon. Monty bowled excellently and Sajid Mahmood discovered that bowling fast and straight tends to worry batsmen more than short and wide does.

 

I feel the key to the day was the runout of Yousuf. England's fielding has been excellent in this match and they hit the wicket frequently, definite signs of improvement there although Collingwood (the successful one this time) has always been top drawer.

 

Chris Read looked the business behind the stumps and he batted really well. It's going to be tough for Jones to get back into the team for the first Ashes test.

 

Now time for twinkle toes (and Essex #3) to do his stuff on Saturday and win the Twenty20!

 

Paul

[the saint]

Absolutely. Surely Monty's vastly superior bowling makes up for any lack of runs in comparison to Giles.

 

Essex to win the 20/20. Dazzler to win us the World Cup!!

 

And I'm looking forward to the Oval on the 18th!!

[the saint]

Well the 20/20 didn't quite go to plan...

 

Still, I'm at the Oval on Friday for England finishing off Pakistan. Apparently it will be a celebration of beards, although I don't think my boss would be too impressed if I sat next to him with the full 'Monty'.

[Walddk]

Apparently it will be a celebration of beards, although I don't think my boss would be too impressed if I sat next to him with the full 'Monty'.

Are you implying that your boss is the one who decides if you grow a beard or not? I'm glad that I'm my own boss then ;)

 

While you let yours grow (or not), we might discuss the dilemma the selectors will be in before the first test of The Ashes in Brisbane in 99 days. Provided that Flintoff is fit, who are they going to sack.

 

Cook, Collingwood or Bell? Tough call, I pass. If only Freddie had been 100% fit, I wouldn't mind leaving out a seamer and go with only two (Harmison and Hoggard), then Flintoff and Panesar. Still four bowlers while you strengthen the batting line-up. This could very well be needed with McGrath back in the Aussie attack.

 

However, I suspect that this is unlikely to happen, so they might as well flip a coin to see who they must tell: "Sorry, mate, you're the one who will be carrying the drinks". Let me stick my neck out and make this my starting 11.

 

Trescothick

Strauss

Bell

Pietersen

Collingwood

Flintoff

Read

Mahmood

Panesar

Harmison

Hoggard *

 

If Simon Jones is fit (unlikely), I will discard Mahmood. Ideally, I would want Cook there and leave Mahmood/Jones out. Then let Cook bat 3 and Bell 7.

 

* No typo. Hoggard is an excellent nightwatchman, but in real life he is nothing but a number 11 batsman.

 

Roland

[the saint]

Of the top seven, Trescothick is easily the most short of form at the moment. Given the choice I would drop Mahmood for Freddie too. Monty has shown that he can bowl extremely long economical spells against the best players of spin in the world (India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan) on some unfavourable pitches and still be attacking. Giles would not bowl as many overs per match and this negates the need to some extent for a 5th specialist bowler. Colly and KP might be able to step in in some capacity too. The obvious place where there will be a change is in Sydney which is traditionally a spinner's pitch, so both Giles and Monty will play there assuming they are both fit.

 

As for the beard, I struggle to grow bum fluff so a falsey would have been my only option. It should be noted that my boss is my source of Test match (and ODI)tickets so riling him on cricket days is not an option!!

 

Another change to your XI. Harmy bats at 9 ahead of Monty.

[paulg]

P.S. I'm having to time my visits to the internet machine at work very carefully so my boss doesn't see me on www.polbridge.pl all time time desperately catching up with the latest news!! If I still have a job at the end of these two weeks it will be a miracle!!

But I guess the live cricket update is acceptable!

 

Paul

[the saint]

P.S. I'm having to time my visits to the internet machine at work very carefully so my boss doesn't see me on www.polbridge.pl all time time desperately catching up with the latest news!! If I still have a job at the end of these two weeks it will be a miracle!!

But I guess the live cricket update is acceptable!

 

Paul

Of course. In fact its a necessity. And its exactly what happened during the third test when everybody forgot their digital radios so we couldn't listen to TMS.

[the saint]

Quite the most turgid, depressing day. We were crap.

[Walddk]

Quite the most turgid, depressing day. We were crap.

Not a chance that England are going to get the Aussies out in a single innings if Harmison keeps on bowling the way he did Friday. It was embarrassing. Maybe London puts a jinx on him. He doesn't like to bowl at Lord's, and we may hear the same about the Brit Oval soon.

 

Roland

[the saint]

Quite the most turgid, depressing day. We were crap.

Not a chance that England are going to get the Aussies out in a single innings if Harmison keeps on bowling the way he did Friday. It was embarrassing. Maybe London puts a jinx on him. He doesn't like to bowl at Lord's, and we may hear the same about the Brit Oval soon.

 

Roland

Stupid thing is, in 2003 vs the Saffers and 2004 against the Windies he was absolute mustard. The Oval is quick and bouncy - Harmy should be flying there inflicting maximum pain on oppo batsmen. He can bowl well at Lords too, he was fantastic against the Aussies in the first test last year. He needs to spend the rest of the season at Durham bowling lots of overs in county cricket to get his rhythm going.

[the saint]

England bat better. The enigma that is KP misses his ton playing his way - but we wouldn't change him! Harmy will have a back scan to sort out his problems. Anything else happen today? Oh yes the ball tampering scandal and now we wonder if there will be a fifth day!! Irrespective of whether its true or not, why is it always Pakistan?

[Walddk]

Oh yes the ball tampering scandal and now we wonder if there will be a fifth day!! Irrespective of whether its true or not, why is it always Pakistan?

There will not be a fifth day, and the match has been awarded to England:

 

"Pakistan forfeited the fourth Test against England after the match descended into chaos when the tourists were penalised for ball-tampering".

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/5268886.stm

 

England won, cricket lost.

 

Roland

[the saint]

Although the Sky people say there wasn't any clear footage, there was a massive photo on the front page of the London Metro newspaper showing a Pakistani bowler playing with the quarter seam on the ball, taken a few minutes before the umpires called them for tampering. The plot thickens.

 

And no, we didn't want to win this way.

[Walddk]

Pakistan skipper Inzamam-ul-Haq has been charged with bringing the game into disrepute after the controversial Oval Test against England. He also faces an allegation of changing the condition of the ball and a hearing will take place on Friday.

 

As captain, he is deemed responsible for the conduct of the entire team.

 

The umpires ruled Pakistan forfeited the Test by initially refusing to take the field after tea in response to being penalised for ball-tampering. It was the first time in 129 years that a Test had been conceded by forfeit.

 

The disrepute charge, which the International Cricket Council views as more serious, could result in a ban of up to four Test matches or eight one-day internationals, if Inzamam is found guilty.

 

He has also been charged with a breach of Level 2.10 of the ICC's code which relates to changing the condition of the ball. If Inzamam is found guilty of that allegation, it could cost him his entire match fee and result in a suspension of one Test or two one-day internationals.

 

If guilty of both charges, any bans would be served consecutively.

 

I predict that the Pakistanis will go home if Inzy is sentenced as charged.

 

This is not the first time Pakistan has been involved in a ball-tampering incident. Last time was also in England. Mind you, the English are no angels either. Some of us still remember the Michael Atherton "dirt in the pockets" farce.

 

Roland

[the saint]

No, I don't think we are angels. There was also the issue of 'boiled sweets' last year. And several English bowlers have been caught/admitted doctoring the ball in first class cricket. The difference is that the Pakistanis tend to make a bigger song and dance about it when they are fingered for it and blame everyone except themselves - or so it appears to me.

 

The distinction people have to remember to make is that a reverse-swinging cricket ball is not a sign that the ball has been doctored - it is a naturally occuring phenomenon that takes great skill to exploit. It is when the ball's condition has been artificially altered to induce and hasten the arrival of said behaviour that the problems arise.

[Walddk]

LAW 42.3c (FAIR AND UNFAIR PLAY):

"It is unfair for anyone to rub the ball on the ground for any reason, interfere with any of the seams or the surface of the ball, use any implement, or take any other action whatsoever which is likely to alter the condition of the ball".

 

How does ball tampering favour bowlers?

 

Bowlers shine one side of a new cricket ball while the opposite is left to deteriorate through natural wear and tear. This process helps bowlers swing the ball in the air.

 

In simple terms, the aerodynamics of bowling mean the shiny side travels faster through the air, while the rough side acts as a brake, pushing the ball in the direction of the rough side. But as the ball loses its early shine, it begins to swing less and it is not until it gets older and rougher that it begins to deviate again, a process known as reverse swing.

 

"As the ball becomes rougher, it will take on a different characteristic as it deteriorates", said former England fast bowling coach Troy Cooley, who helped England's bowlers use the phenomenon to great success during the 2005 Ashes series.

 

"So if you present the ball as an outswinger, the ball has deteriorated so much on the rough side that it takes on the characteristics of the shiny side. This means that a natural outswinger will become an inswinger and conversely, an inswinger an outswinger".

 

The laws of the game clearly state fielders can polish, clean or dry the ball, but nothing more. The batsmen, pitch and outfield all contribute to the natural wear and tear of the ball, which usually starts to reverse swing around the 40- to 50-over mark during a Test match.

 

However, the earlier the ball starts to reverse swing, the more problems it poses for the batsmen. Bowlers can facilitate the deterioration by manipulating the condition of the ball illegally.

 

The seam, which acts as the ball's rudder when it swings, can be picked with fingernails. The nails can also help to further scuff the rough side of the ball.

[jikl]

LAW 42.3c (FAIR AND UNFAIR PLAY):

"It is unfair for anyone to rub the ball on the ground for any reason, interfere with any of the seams or the surface of the ball, use any implement, or take any other action whatsoever which is likely to alter the condition of the ball".

 

This is one of the most silly rules ever contrived. It is legal to rub the ball to shine it; however, consider this, how many times have you seen a spinner rub his hand on the pitch and then thake the ball to have more grip? Is this not imparting a different condition upon the ball?

 

Let's go on another angle...

 

If I decided to soak a particular part of my white with oil or lacquer ot make it super easy to change the ball... we all know that is illegal. If I chose to put talcum powder on my had to facillitate the release of the ball from my hand that is legal.

 

Personally, I think if Pakistan wanted to really dig in, they would win in the courts as the law is unenforceable as it has too many contradictions.

 

Sean

 

PS: In some ways I am glad Darrell Hair is Australian. It means he can't umpire in our matches. It is a sad reflection that this thought came to me so quickly.

[zasanya]

Irrespective of whether its true or not, why is it always Pakistan?

It isn't.Ask Muralitharan of Sri Lanka.Or ask Sunil gavaskar regarding a certain Umpire Whitehead of Austrailia.

And Why is it always Darrel Hair of Austrailia?

[the saint]

IMO, the laws of the game are the laws. The law may be an ass, and after this it will probably have to be reviewed to provide a balance (Pakistan do have a rightful grievance about being unable to defend themselves), but they did willingly refuse to play and in the opinion of the umpires they have a case to answer about ball tampering. Without doubt this whole matter could have been handled much better, but when the laws say a certain thing, you have to follow them.

 

It is also worth noting that there were TWO umpires involved, who both agreed with each other - people seem to be forgetting Billy Doctrove too. Now from a cricketing standpoint I think they are both atrocious in terms of poor judgments on decisions (Aleem Dar is the best I have seen recently - was superb in the Sri Lanka series) but they have made a decision that they agreed on so the teams should observe it.

 

Ironically, the one person I feel sorry for in all this is Inzy. Given the fractious nature of England-Pakistan cricket relations, his mild mannered approach has worked wonders, and the England fans really love the guy. As captain he is responsible for the conduct of his team, and I do hope for his sake that someone on his side wasn't doing anything behind his back. Cricket needs more Inzys.

[Walddk]

I agree with BBC pundit Jonathan Agnew when he says .....

 

"While I do have some sympathy for Pakistan, staging a sit-in on Sunday evening was not the right way to register their protest.

 

They clearly feel most aggrieved at having been found guilty of ball-tampering without being able to defend themselves. But a better, more sensible approach would surely have been to issue a strong denial at tea time, in which they also promised to appeal, and get on with the game.

 

Instead, what they tried to do was effectively blackmail the officials into overturning the umpires' decision.

 

This could have set a very dangerous precedent".

[mr1303]

One thing I am concerned about is that the rest of the series may not go ahead now. I'd be very sad about this (not least because I have tickets to the Twenty20 international on Monday).

 

Surely some sort of truce can be reached, for the good of the game.

[Dwingo]

From what I read in the news, there is no evidence that the ball has been doctored. That being so, giving a penalty of 5runs without having the courtesy to tell the captain why it was done, is not gentlemanly.

 

I remember Lever using vaseline durig his India tour long before the reverse swing technique was established. I wonder what he was trying to achieve then.

 

BCCI coming to the support of ICC on this issue is also surprising. BCCI can't see eye to eye with ICC and PCB and probably playing the cards right by choosing to support the ICC. Indian media is playing the racial card against Hair and this will be in the headlines for some more time to come.

[mr1303]

Newsflash:

 

Darrell Hair has offered to resign in exchange for 500,00 US dollars.

 

Anyone know why?!?

[the saint]

And we are still sh1t at one-day cricket.

[EricK]

And we are still sh1t at one-day cricket.

Many of our best bowlers are injured and we insist on picking "bits and pieces" players rather than quality players. Why, for instance, is Panesar not playing? You need wicket-taking bowlers to win these days; you can't just try to rely on containment.