Partner Michaelsed

[Echognome]

[hv=d=e&v=e&s=sqj964hq65d962ckq]133|100|Scoring: IMP

(P) - P - (1♠) - 2♠*

(P) - ?[/hv]

*Michael's cuebid

 

Your call?

[mr1303]

I request more information. Do you play it as weak or strong options only, or do you play it as any "suitable" hand?

 

If weak or strong only, I bid 3H. If partner has the strong hand he'll bid again.

Otherwise, I'll probably bid 3H anyway. QJ of spades are waste paper, and I just don't have a hand I can bid a game on.

[jdonn]

I request more information. Do you play it as weak or strong options only, or do you play it as any "suitable" hand?

 

If weak or strong only, I bid 3H. If partner has the strong hand he'll bid again.

Otherwise, I'll probably bid 3H anyway. QJ of spades are waste paper, and I just don't have a hand I can bid a game on.

So why did you need more information? :)

[mr1303]

Because the "weak or strong options only" method makes bidding 3H clearcut. If any suitable hand, then it becomes closer. I'd probably bid a slow 3H!

[jdonn]

Fair enough. Without knowing what you are playing it becomes impossible to transmit unauthorized information to partner accurately.

[Echognome]

If it helps, I didn't know what we were playing.

[cherdano]

If it helps, I didn't know what we were playing.

Lol. Anyway, I think this is 3♥ in any case.

[mikeh]

I will try 2N: if he bids 3♣, I bid game in ♥: he is red v white, forcing a passed hand to the 3-level: he should have a hand in which my 3 working cards and my 3rd trump come in handy. We may be cold or we may need some luck, but we should at least have a play.

 

My preference is to use the sequence 2N followed by 3♥ as a try for game, reserving the direct 3♥ to announce weakness. If so, then by bidding 2N, I am risking his bidding game after 3♦ - 3♥, and I am much less optimistic about that... but we are red... so I take the aggressive road: he might have x AKJxx AQJxx xx or equivalent, and the ♦ K may be onside.... and no bad splits anywhere...

 

I'd like to know how common this treatment of 2N then the major is.

[Echognome]

I will try 2N: if he bids 3♣, I bid game in ♥: he is red v white, forcing a passed hand to the 3-level: he should have a hand in which my 3 working cards and my 3rd trump come in handy. We may be cold or we may need some luck, but we should at least have a play.

 

My preference is to use the sequence 2N followed by 3♥ as a try for game, reserving the direct 3♥ to announce weakness. If so, then by bidding 2N, I am risking his bidding game after 3♦ - 3♥, and I am much less optimistic about that... but we are red... so I take the aggressive road: he might have x AKJxx AQJxx xx or equivalent, and the ♦ K may be onside.... and no bad splits anywhere...

 

I'd like to know how common this treatment of 2N then the major is.

Not to try to correct you, but I think you may have misread. He is white versus red.

[mikeh]

Not to try to correct you, but I think you may have misread. He is white versus red.

Thanks for the tactful correction :)

 

Ok, I will still bid 2N but I will only bid 3♥ next over whatever he bids... I still like my hand enough to make my version of a slow 3♥ bid :)

[mike777]

If it helps, I didn't know what we were playing.

My on going complaint about Michaels convention. My results do seem greatly improved now that I try to almost never bid this. :). Between random meanings by my partners and giving declarer a roadmap ugggg.

[Codo]

At the table, I had found a lazy 3 ♥ bid with no much thoughts. But I must admit, that I like the slow approach of Mike and will bid 2 NT followed by 3 ♥ next time.

[jdeegan]

At the table, I had found a lazy 3 ♥ bid with no much thoughts. But I must admit, that I like the slow approach of Mike and will bid 2 NT followed by 3 ♥ next time.

B) Well said. The slow go approach allows you to evaluate your KQ of clubs - either awful or excellent depending on pard's second suit. Even so, I don't see very much hope for game. Only if we play weak or strong Michaels and pard is strong and has clubs, is there much chance for game.

 

x

AK10xx

xx

AJ10xx

 

gives us a good shot at game, and leaves opener with plenty of high cards for his bid. But what if pard's second suit is diamonds?

 

xx

AK10xx

AJ10xx

x

 

This means I have to pass 3 ♦. Not a bad way to go.

 

Great posting. I really learned something from it.

[Finch]

I don't think 2NT followed by 3H is 'obviously' an invitational raise to 3H, it could just be a weak 4315 distribution or similar. Without discussion there's certainly guesswork involved.

 

I know one partnership who play a 3D response to Michaels as an invitational bid in partner's major, on the grounds that this is far more likely than a hand that wants to play in 3D.

 

My partnerships (used to*) play 2NT as promising invitational values, 3C as weak pass-or-correct, and 3D as to play opposite diamonds but invitational in clubs.

 

(*we've given up Michaels over a 1S opening)

[mr1303]

Well said. The slow go approach allows you to evaluate your KQ of clubs - either awful or excellent depending on pard's second suit. Even so, I don't see very much hope for game. Only if we play weak or strong Michaels and pard is strong and has clubs, is there much chance for game.

 

x

AK10xx

xx

AJ10xx

 

gives us a good shot at game, and leaves opener with plenty of high cards for his bid. But what if pard's second suit is diamonds?

 

xx

AK10xx

AJ10xx

x

 

This means I have to pass 3 ♦. Not a bad way to go.

 

Great posting. I really learned something from it.

 

But playing the weak or strong only version, both of those hands are in between and as a result would NOT use Michaels, and would make a simple overcall instead.

[whereagles]

If pard is me, 3♥ and hope it doesn't get doubled.

 

If pard is from the old school, 2NT comes to mind, but only if you can stop in 3♥ after pard's rebid.

[eamongall]

I think being a passed hand opposite the Michaels means any bid apart from 3H shows interest in going forward apart from the 3C bid to play in partners minor. Maybe this 16 count is meant to be an inbetween hand and not a strong hand as there is no way I can see this hand bidding twice with out some encouragement. 2N seems to me to be the way to show this encouragement protected by the fact that you are a passed hand. However I suppose one must be aware that those 10 hcp are under the opener but opener is a 3rd hander so may not have all the goodies. However a plus score is good and 3!Hs making will be a plus score.

However I know Matt is a big blame hogger as opposed to a bridge player so no doubt he is in here trying to blame his pard for existing. Go Matt all 81 inches of him. B)

:lol:

 

 

I would bid 2NT but I would not have figured on all the hcp points being in openers hand. Bridge is serious .. life is a game ..

 

Thanks

Eamon Galligan

eamongall

[Free]

3♥, don't see the problem here... :unsure:

[Echognome]

However I know Matt is a big blame hogger as opposed to a bridge player so no doubt he is in here trying to blame his pard for existing.

I can only say that I find this offensive and, more importantly, unjust. I posted this hand namely because partner attacked me for bidding 3♥. I won't go into any more details lest it become a flame war.

 

Thank you all for your replies.

[pclayton]

I was at the table and I found nothing wrong with 3♥. I really don't think your hand is that attractive opposite a minimum 5-5.

 

I did have an issue with your partner's call however, but I (uncharacteristically) kept my mouth shut.

[eamongall]

Folks

 

I did not mean anything as offensive so I am sorry if I offended anybody. This hand has not cost me a thought all day but I can see the general view is that 3!H is enough on the hand so I am reeducated.

 

However we must always remember that the typed word is written by the writer in his/her mode of thought and feelings which is almost always quite opposite to the reader of the same words. Visual and tone inflections are totally missing in forums and email etc.

 

I also wondered if 2S was a correct bid in my comment as maybe this hand should be a middle of the road hand as opposed to strong or weak ..

 

A final point ... Bridge is actually a wargame so things do get hurt ..lets see wheres those smileys :huh: :o ;) :lol: :D :P B) :unsure: <_< :( :ph34r:

 

Anyway its all the guys fault who opened 1S with the 7 count and over and out :):)

:blink: :angry: :) :) :unsure:

 

Thanks

Eamon Galligan

[pclayton]

Folks

 

I did not mean anything as offensive so I am sorry if I offended anybody. This hand has not cost me a thought all day but I can see the general view is that 3!H is enough on the hand so I am reeducated.

 

However we must always remember that the typed word is written by the writer in his/her mode of thought and feelings which is almost always quite opposite to the reader of the same words. Visual and tone inflections are totally missing in forums and email etc.

 

I also wondered if 2S was a correct bid in my comment as maybe this hand should be a middle of the road hand as opposed to strong or weak ..

 

A final point ... Bridge is actually a wargame so things do get hurt ..lets see wheres those smileys :huh: :o ;) :lol: :D :P B) B) <_< :( :ph34r:

 

Anyway its all the guys fault who opened 1S with the 7 count and over and out :):)

:blink: :angry: :rolleyes: :) :unsure:

 

Thanks

Eamon Galligan

Yeah, but it was a great 7 count! ♠AKxxx ♥xx ♦xxxx ♣xx :P

 

My only comment is if you are upgrading that to a strong Michaels call (borderline), you owe Matt another call.

[han]

I agree with the consensus, which I think is that the hand is close between 3H directly and 2NT followed by 3H.

 

Like Phil, I don't think that bidding 2NT with the strong hand and then passing is a very good idea.

 

One more thing, I also had the 7-count and decided not to open 1S because of the colors (red vs white). I would have opened 1S at any other vulnerability.

[jdeegan]

But playing the weak or strong only version, both of those hands are in between and as a result would NOT use Michaels, and would make a simple overcall instead.

;) Interesting point, just where is the dividing line between overcalling and strong Michaels, AND how does the owner of a strong Michaels hand show his hand over 2NT?

 

I suppose the strong hand is shown by jumping in the minor. So, over 4♣ we bid a confident 4♥. Over 4♦ we also bid 4♥, but with less confidence. If we had bid 3♥ instead of 2NT, pard would raise to four.

 

Hmmm......, it looks like it makes little difference whether we bid 3♥ or 2NT. We play 3♥ opposite the minnie and 4♥ opposite the maxie. The only difference is that after 2NT we have the option of playing 3♦ or if pard bids 3♣ and I "correct" to 3♥, it must show extras.

 

Again, congrats to all for starting and adding to this thread.

[civill]

I will try 2N: if he bids 3♣, I bid game in ♥: he is red v white, forcing a passed hand to the 3-level: he should have a hand in which my 3 working cards and my 3rd trump come in handy. We may be cold or we may need some luck, but we should at least have a play.

I'll bid 2NT to indicate stoppers in ♠...