Bidding question

[jillybean]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sakhq5da72caqj762]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  Pass  1♣

 Pass  1♠    2♥    

 

What now? When is 3♥ asking for a ♥ stopper for NT and when is it “help partner, I have a big hand and I don’t know what to bid?”. These hands are unfortunately infrequent and usually mess me up.

 

tyia

jb

[Echognome]

Count me in for 3♥. I play this as a GF asking partner to tell me more about his hand. Of course, the first thing he'll probably answer is if he has a ♥ stop.

[jillybean]

Here is the full hand

 

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s98643hk64dqt95c4&s=sakhq5da72caqj762]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  Pass  1♣

 Pass  1♠    2♥    

[luke warm]

i'd bid 3♥ also... when pard bids 3nt i would then pass

[jillybean]

So, when is 3♥ asking for a stop for NT or 'help, I dont know what to bid'

or doesnt it matter as long as your partner bids again :blink:

[Echognome]

My view on this is basically the cuebid is useful when you don't have any other convenient bid. The problem with the hand you posted is that it is very strong and you don't have an easy force. Thus the cuebid acts are your force (use the force Luke).

 

You wouldn't have had an easy rebid if RHO had passed. I would probably have reversed into diamonds. So all you're saying to partner is "please describe your hand further and maybe I'll know what to do then."

[P_Marlowe]

So, when is 3♥ asking for a stop for NT or 'help, I dont know what to bid'

or doesnt it matter as long as your partner bids again :lol:

It does not matter.

3H does ask for further description,

main focus is certainly a heart stopper.

 

3H shows a strong hand, afterall you force

partner to the 4 level although partner did

only promise a 4 card spade suit and 5/6HCP.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[helene_t]

A cuebid is often defined as a raise of partner's suit. If that's the agreement, you have to bid 3♦. But I think 3♥ is fine with this hand.

[cherdano]

A cuebid is often defined as a raise of partner's suit. If that's the agreement, you have to bid 3♦. But I think 3♥ is fine with this hand.

A cue-bid in opener's rebid is usually an exception to that general rule.

E.g. on the auction 1♣-(P)-1♥-(1♠), one would bid 2♥ or 3♥ with a heart raise just as normal. A cuebid of 2♠ shows a good hand with no clear bid; very often this would be 18-19 balanced with no spade stopper.

 

I think the situation here is the same. With a spade raise, you just raise, and 3♥ shows a good hand. Since it is forcing at the 3-level with no known fit, it is logically game forcing.

 

Arend

[han]

So, when is 3♥ asking for a stop for NT or 'help, I dont know what to bid'

or doesnt it matter as long as your partner bids again :P

"Asking for a stopper" and "help I have a strong hand but don't know what to bid" are basically the same. After all, if you didn't have a strong hand then you wouldn't be asking for a stopper, and if you knew where you wanted to play then you wouldn't make the cuebid either.

 

Matt' description "I play this as a GF asking partner to tell me more about his hand" is yet another way to say the same thing.

[luke warm]

So, when is 3♥ asking for a stop for NT or 'help, I dont know what to bid' or doesnt it matter as long as your partner bids again :D

i would always treat it as asking for a stopper

[pclayton]

3♥ is a general force. It can be a Western Q, or it can be a really big hand with 3 card support. My personal belief is that 4 card support should try to find another way to raise.

 

3♥ also indicates the ability to control the auction. I suppose North is endplayed into 3N and 3N turns into an exercise trying to keep the West hand off lead.

[jillybean]

Thanks Phil,

Western Q = asking partner to bid NT with a stopper? I dont know all the jargon

[foo]

♠AK♥Q5♦A72♣AQJ762

20 counts are often hard to bid. Especially when they are focused on the minors.

 

Standard here is to either

1) Open 1C planning to

a)rebid 3N (which promises the kind of C suit you have but not necessarily the HCP you have) or

b ) rebid 4C (which show your HCP better but is often unpopular becauses it bypasses 3N)

OR

2) Open 2N with all balanced and semi-balanced 20-21 HCP hands so that you at least get your general values and shape across ASAP.

 

You will find things easier if you don't choose what to Open until you have made at least a tentative plan as to what your rebid will be.

 

So, here it goes pa-pa-1C-pa;1S-(2H) by the nasty opponents who don't know that we have 20 HCP and partner has ~6-11 HCP. We belong in a Game or They should be X'd for penalties.

 

3H is your best choice here, and it doesn't really matter what it means beyond "Partner, we are in a GF auction. Tell me more about your hand!"

 

3s= 6+S and now you can bid 4S confidently.

3n= shows H's stopped and denies 6+S.

4c= denies both of the above and shows 3+C. We are probably playing 5C.

4d= shows 5+S and 4+D AND extra values (say ~9-11)

 

Sometimes pard will have to fudge a bit and bid 3S with 5 good S's or 3N with only 1/2 a stop (Jxx, Txxx, that sort of thing.)

 

Nothing in Bridge is certain, bit you will land on your feet the vast majority of time this way.

[whereagles]

jillybean, most people don't have rules as to what a cuebid shows. There are, of course, a few standard definitions, like 1y-2x-3x = support, but other than that it's all based on feeling and common-sense.

[badderzboy]

Cuebids here are just like 4th suit forcing and the easiest way to play them and it simply says tell me more!

 

Steve

[luke warm]

i don't think some of these answers are helping jilly very much... for example, the above post says the cuebid says "tell me more"... ok, if you have a stop in that suit do you tell that? i already said i always would do so, because i think that's what the asker wants to know (for whatever reason)

[keylime]

I am not a fan of 3♥ in this context. It's asking a lot of partner who may go wrong more often than right.

 

However, I do like of all things, 3NT! What I fear is cuebidding and then hearing pard go into the tank with a 4-3-4-2 hand. Yes I have a half-stop, but sometimes I got to live a little bit.

 

FYI: Beaner where did you get that GREAT aviatar from?

[Echognome]

I am not a fan of 3♥ in this context. It's asking a lot of partner who may go wrong more often than right.

 

However, I do like of all things, 3NT! What I fear is cuebidding and then hearing pard go into the tank with a 4-3-4-2 hand. Yes I have a half-stop, but sometimes I got to live a little bit.

Although I appreciate you wanting to make life easier for partner, I do not like 3NT for several reasons.

 

1) Partner will play you for a full stop and will not be able to help you to judge the hand. Of course, 3NT will end the auction most of the time anyway.

 

2) You want overcaller on lead. If partner has Ax in hearts, overcaller will either have to blow a trick or a tempo. Whereas if his partner is on lead, the heart lead knocks out the stop immediately before any other work can be done on the hand.

 

3) You have nothing else in your hand that needs protecting.

[keylime]

Matt,

 

For exactly that reason is why I bid 3NT. I don't want to confuse a partner that is wondering what 3♥ is.

 

With a more experienced partnership, this is a no-brainer -> there's probably 2-3 different strains we can bid this hand with.

[han]

I also dislike 3NT, not only may 3NT be better from partner's side, it is also not unlikely that we belong in spades. Bidding 3NT because your partner doesn't have a solid understanding of the cuebid yet also seems wrong, how is partner going to learn when you don't make the cuebid with the right hands?

[jillybean]

Thanks for the replies, just when I think I understand this bid another situation, another partner presents itself and all falls apart again. Anyway, more to work to do on this one ;)

[keylime]

I didn't say it was best bridge admittedly, but I'm all about making it easy on partner. In retrospect, who thinks this hand is opened 2NT?

[Winstonm]

I like 3D here - it announces the strength and allows partner a chance to bid 3H, 3S or 3N. Partner's should never get too excited about support for a minor reverse until proven to be a real suit. With Kxx of hearts and Qxxx of diamonds, 3N is the better description.

 

Winston

[jillybean]

Hi Winston! 3♦ it was , it back fired :D

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=s98643hk64dqt95c4&w=sjt752ht8dkj3c985&e=sqhaj9732d864ckt3&s=sakhq5da72caqj762]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     Pass  Pass  1♣

 Pass  1♠    2♥    3♦

 Pass  4♦    Pass  5♣

 Pass  5♦    Pass  Pass

 Pass