What do you open?

[Double !]

and considering that AKQ and Q2222 are not exactly desirable holdings, not to mention a singleton in partner's bid suit, I think even calling this hand worth 15 is pretty generous. If I did open 1♣ I would rebid 1NT, which I don't think is nearly as severe an underbid as it appears.

I thought that, perhaps, I was the only one to whom the possibility of opening 1C and rebidding 1NT, seemingly a gross underbid, was even a thought (not necessarily a consideration).

 

I was torn between opening 1C and 1NT. I do not consider this hand worth a reverse, and I am stuck for a rebid should I open 1 heart and partner raise on 3-card support.

 

I elected to open 1 club with the intent of rebidding 1NT should partner respond 1 spade, fully aware that this is a lie about my high card points. Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see a rebid problem if partner makes any other response. But, in my humble opinion, I feel that this hand is a flawed 16 with less than half of my high cards in my long suits, and I suspect that the partnership might often need a little extra combined in terms of high cards than usual unless partner has extra shape or good club cards in order to have enough tricks for any game or for the opps to not have enough quick cashing tricks to defeat game. If partner responds 1S and I rebid 1NT, P will now be bidding hearts if P has 4+ hearts, so the fit isn't missed. I would prefer to not rebid 2 clubs with this hands: I prefer this to show a 6 card suit or at least not Q empty 5th. In addition, should the opps start to bid spades, I am good enough to throw in a competitive double both in terms of strength and shape.

 

 

I thought that my rationale for handling this particular type of hand was reasonable until I read Fred's compelling rationale for opening 1NT. Now I am not so sure, especially regarding his point about the opps potentially misjudging the 1NT opener's hand.

 

Great hand for posting and discussing.

 

DHL

[whereagles]

For me 1C then 2C shows a 6-card suit. I have rebid 2C with 5 before, but I would never do that with a suit like Qxxxx.

Why is it that in the US/Canada people dislike rebidding a suit on 5 cards? I can think of one reason, namely, to make

 

1♣ 1M

2♣ 2M

 

mildly invitational, since with a weakish hand with 5-6 in the major you just pass 2♣ because it's a 6 card. Is this it?

 

As an aside, in Europe the solution to an invitational hand with a major would more likely be

 

1♣ 1M

2♣ 2♦ <-- 3rd suit, artificial 1-round forcing, inv+

 

That allows for 2♣ to be bid on 5 cards if the hand is not strong enough to reverse.

[jdonn]

For me 1C then 2C shows a 6-card suit. I have rebid 2C with 5 before, but I would never do that with a suit like Qxxxx.

Why is it that in the US/Canada people dislike rebidding a suit on 5 cards? I can think of one reason, namely, to make

 

1♣ 1M

2♣ 2M

 

mildly invitational, since with a weakish hand with 5-6 in the major you just pass 2♣ because it's a 6 card. Is this it?

 

As an aside, in Europe the solution to an invitational hand with a major would more likely be

 

1♣ 1M

2♣ 2♦ <-- 3rd suit, artificial 1-round forcing, inv+

 

That allows for 2♣ to be bid on 5 cards if the hand is not strong enough to reverse.

Because 5-1 fits are not very fun. Especially when the 5 is Qxxxx and the 1 is in a weak hand. It also makes life a lot easier on responder. Take 1♣ p 1♠ p 2♣ p ?

 

KQTxx

xxx

Qxx

xx

 

Easy pass if partner showed 6 clubs. Frankly I don't know what to do if partner may just have 5 clubs, especially bad ones, but either pass or 2♠ could certainly be wrong.

 

Axxx

xxx

Kxxx

Kx

 

Easy 3♣ bid, and the auction should go smoothly from here. If partner could have 5 clubs, again I don't know what I'm supposed to do. 2NT on xxx of hearts? Yuck. Raise? Hope partner doesn't have Qxxxx :)

 

I don't even consider the reason you state, for me 1♣ 1♠ 2♣ 2♠ is still a minimum hand, just with good spades. I suppose some disagree with that, but I think my way is considered standard. I think.

[whereagles]

I see. It's just trading one problem for the other, in the end.

[mikeh]

I see. It's just trading one problem for the other, in the end.

which is a perfect description of designing any bidding method or choosing any treatment or convention.....

[Echognome]

Yep. Trading one problem for another is quite apt. Strong clubbers could say 1♣ wtp? Of course they have an interesting problem over 1♣ - 1♦, but not so much of a problem over 1♣ - 1♠ (as the GF eases the situation).

[pclayton]

Yep. Trading one problem for another is quite apt. Strong clubbers could say 1♣ wtp? Of course they have an interesting problem over 1♣ - 1♦, but not so much of a problem over 1♣ - 1♠ (as the GF eases the situation).

No problem whatsoever. 1♥; forcing - either natural, canape or a big balanced hand.

[Echognome]

Yep.  Trading one problem for another is quite apt.  Strong clubbers could say 1♣ wtp?  Of course they have an interesting problem over 1♣ - 1♦, but not so much of a problem over 1♣ - 1♠ (as the GF eases the situation).

No problem whatsoever. 1♥; forcing - either natural, canape or a big balanced hand.

Laugh. Of course depending on your methods. :)

 

1♥ for me would be artificial 19+, so that's out.

 

I would have to bite the bullet and bid 2♣ and a 2♠ bid over that means it will be hard to find any ♥ fit. I guess I would bid 2NT and hope that either partner can bid 3♥ or that we're not already too high.

[jdonn]

Yep. Trading one problem for another is quite apt. Strong clubbers could say 1♣ wtp? Of course they have an interesting problem over 1♣ - 1♦, but not so much of a problem over 1♣ - 1♠ (as the GF eases the situation).

I wouldn't open it 1♣ playing a strong club. Maybe a 15+ club, but no way a 16+ one. I'm not saying this solves all problems, but 1♦ then 2♣ is known to be bid on this shape the way I play, so it's nothing too unusual.

 

I still think this hand is really worth about 14.5 or so