han Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 [hv=d=n&v=b&s=skxxhj108xxxdqxcax]133|100|Scoring: IMP1♣-(p)-1♥-(3♦)4♦-(p)-??[/hv] You respond 1H to partner's 1C, and then the auction evolves rapidly. LHO bids a preemptive 3D and partner bids 4D. Back to you. Warning: I won't post partner's hand, it will not be interesting. But I thought that the problem was interesting from my perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hmm, is 5H a general slam invitation, asking for good trumps, or asking to bid slam with ♦ control? Whatever it is, I have it :) Seriously, I assume 4♦ agrees hearts, and I would just bid 4N RKC. Yeah this might go horribly wrong opposite Ax AKQx xx KQJxx, but that hand might just bid 4♥. Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hmm, is 5H a general slam invitation, asking for good trumps, or asking to bid slam with ♦ control? Whatever it is, I have it :) Seriously, I assume 4♦ agrees hearts, and I would just bid 4N RKC. Yeah this might go horribly wrong opposite Ax AKQx xx KQJxx, but that hand might just bid 4♥. Arend 4♠ cue looks reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 rkc now! 4S kickback if possible. I do not expect p to show a void on this round of bidding. I would expect pard to have rebid 4H with 2 small D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Too good for 4♥, not good enough to take control. I think 4♠ cue-bid and see what partner does. BTW, if partner ask for heart queen, I will show it as I expect him to have 4♥ on this auction. You all use 14, 03 response to RKCB right? I hope the bidding willl be... 1C-P-1H-3D4D-P-4S-P4N-P-5C-P5D <<--- here I plan to show the ♥ Queen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Yikes, nasty problem.4♠ showing the club control.Pd denies a club control bidding 4♦ so if I bid 4♥ it is because I can't control clubs, therefore I can't bid 4♥ and so I bid 4♠. Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Yikes, nasty problem.4♠ showing the club control.Pd denies a club control bidding 4♦ so if I bid 4♥ it is because I can't control clubs, therefore I can't bid 4♥ and so I bid 4♠. Luis Partner denies a club control bidding 4♦? Are you suggesting that 4♣ is a very strong heart raise too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 i'd just bid 4♠ ... we have 10 hearts, they have 10 or 11 diamonds... if my spade control is what he needs, now he can bid rkc if he wants or even 5c, in which case i'll bid 5h showing my ♠ was the king... 5c is out (denies a spade) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Yikes, nasty problem.4♠ showing the club control.Pd denies a club control bidding 4♦ so if I bid 4♥ it is because I can't control clubs, therefore I can't bid 4♥ and so I bid 4♠. Luis Partner denies a club control bidding 4♦? Are you suggesting that 4♣ is a very strong heart raise too? Maybe it's not nasty it's too nasty a problem, maybe 4♣ is natural or maybe it is heart support and a club control and 4♦ denies a club control. Maybe 4♦ is ambiguous and shows a strong heart raise. And even if you are 100% sure what 4♦ is how can we know what to do ? Sometimes I just don't know and this is one of those times.I'm sure I have too much for 4♥ but I also think 4♠ will just trigger 4NT so I'm commiting my side to a slam here. I wonder if we change some cards what would we bid... Maybe we don't want to know Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 i'm not sure what the best bid here is, but i will be honest and say that I would rkc under the assumption that partner's 4D Q shows a big hand and confirms hearts opposite a hand that only showed 4+ hearts. If P doesn't have hearts, then P has a hand that is able to have me assume that P has hearts and operate from that assumption. If not, i suspect that there is something else that P could have bid. I have a lot more opposite a strong heart-support hand than P could anticipate. The 6th heart (if original default assumption is correct) is huge. I believe that it is up to me to take captaincy This answer instinctive feels so wrong. Waiting to learn the correct bid. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalvan14 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 4♦ certainly agrees hearts, and is a slam try. As very often happens, it is a crowded auction, and pard does not have a lot of options available. IMHO, 4♦ does not promise a control there.Why should the weaker hand assume captaincy, and ask for KCs?The best bid is 4♠, accepting the slam try, and promising a control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 geez 1h promises almost nothing on this auction, why would pard bid 4D without a D control and not 4H or even 5H to find out about D's? Glad I did not have 4s as a cuebid to confuse partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I got the feeling 4♥ is the best move, so that's what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I promised 4 Hearts and 6 HCps. Now I have 6 Hearts and 8 working HCPS.Pd forced me to game and he is not interessted in 3 NT, nor did he bid a forcing 3 Spade or any number of clubs.SO, we have a good fit, we have each suit under control. I think, that 7 Heart will be loosing less often then 4 Heart in this hand. But I have a tools to check, like a control showing 4 Spade or a KCB sequence. I think, that both will find us the right slam. And I do not bother about a strong hand with two small diamonds in PDs hand. Then he had bid a simple 4 HEart, which had shown a big hand before.Or he had bid 4 Clubs, surely forcing.I cannot imagine any given hand, where pd had openend 1 Club and has a hand now, that is Gameforcing without a Diamond control. If he looks at Axx,AKQx,xx,AKQx or so, he had openend some 2 NT and with A,AKQx,xx,AKQxxx, he had a 5 Heart bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miron Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 What would be your call if 4♠ are RKCB? (4NT is ♠ cue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I cue: in my methods, 4N is the ♠ cue, which might not be the best usage on this auction.... now neither side can keycard. I am not confident that partner HAS to have a ♦ control. In a jammed auction, the lower limit of all of his ♥ raises is reduced: thus he will bid 3♥ on a hand that was, in an uncontested auction, a heavy 2♥ bid, and he will bid 4♥ on heavy 3♥ hands... thus he needs 4♦ for all heavy 4♥ raises, with or without a ♦ control. So I like my hand, but cannot drive to slam based on a keycard response (unless he shows all of them). If he bids 5♣ over 4N, I bid 5♥, confirming a ♦ problem. I think that 5♥ by me directly should also express ♦ concern, but my chosen sequence is an overall weaker one: 5♥ insists upon slam opposite 2nd round control: my slow route suggests that my hand is not good enough... so partner needs a super hand to accept my slow route. 5♥ would get us to slam opposite KQx KQxx x AQJxx.... 4N followed by 5♥ won't... but it would opposite KQx AKxx x AQJxx. Maybe I am being too cute with my distinctions... if so I am sure someone will set me straight :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Maybe I am being too cute with my distinctions... if so I am sure someone will set me straight :) No need. You are just right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 "I am not confident that partner HAS to have a ♦ control. In a jammed auction, the lower limit of all of his ♥ raises is reduced: thus he will bid 3♥ on a hand that was, in an uncontested auction, a heavy 2♥ bid, and he will bid 4♥ on heavy 3♥ hands... thus he needs 4♦ for all heavy 4♥ raises, with or without a ♦ control." It seems to me that using 4D for heavy 4H raises without a D control puts slam before game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Or he had bid 4 Clubs, surely forcing. Hmm. I would certainly take 4♣ as non-forcing. Showing extra values, yes, but forcing? In standard, we can't even make a forcing bid showing clubs without the interference... Arend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 When I had this hand at the table I did choose to bid 5♥. I agree with Mikeh that 4D does not guarantee a diamond control, and I was willing to risk slam if partner had one. I think that the majority is right in that 4S is better, certainly the hand mikeh gives (KQx KQxx x AQJxx) is a possible hand for partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 When I had this hand at the table I did choose to bid 5♥. I agree with Mikeh that 4D does not guarantee a diamond control, and I was willing to risk slam if partner had one. I think that the majority is right in that 4S is better, certainly the hand mikeh gives (KQx KQxx x AQJxx) is a possible hand for partner. ? We have the K of s and ace of clubs not partner correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 When I had this hand at the table I did choose to bid 5♥. I agree with Mikeh that 4D does not guarantee a diamond control, and I was willing to risk slam if partner had one. I think that the majority is right in that 4S is better, certainly the hand mikeh gives (KQx KQxx x AQJxx) is a possible hand for partner. I have the feeling that both 4♠ and 5♥ are more or less the same thing, the only good thing about 4♠ is that pd can bid 4NT and find if two keycards are missing.They both semi-commit your hand to a slam so the decision is practically the same. Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 4♠ is definitely better than 5♥ because it allows pard to use RKCB. Why do you want pard to bid RKCB? Because... 1) he's the strong hand, so he will probably know what to do with the info he'll get, AND 2) he probably has enough controls to be able to RKCB, whereas you definitely don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 4♠ is definitely better than 5♥ because it allows pard to use RKCB. Why do you want pard to bid RKCB? Because... 1) he's the strong hand, so he will probably know what to do with the info he'll get, AND 2) he probably has enough controls to be able to RKCB, whereas you definitely don't.You are right. And 3) After 4♠ then an RKC answer, you have left nothing unsaid. That will show your spade control, your club ace, and your heart length (as the equivalent of the heart queen, which you will show). Ok it might not show the diamond queen, I can live with that :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 Well, it is quite likely that partner has the heart queen, so you won't get to show your heart length Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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