mike777 Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Round of 16 in the Vanderbilt you have this hand: Qxx...Axx...KJT98...Jx Fav. vul. 2H=P=P=? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchett Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Pass, No accurate call to describe the hand and the upside is an NV game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I'm gonna bid 3♦. Don't ask me why. I just feel 3♦ is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luis Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 3!d protecting pd,There are many hands where pd can't bid over 2♥ and we have a game so I take the risk and protect my pd bidding what I have. Luis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 3♦ - might win the part score; might turn a -110 into a -50. But best of all, we might catch pard with a 13-14 count that makes 3N cold. Against that, we are probably getting 2♥ -200 or -300, so its no great gain. But bidding seems the best way to get the plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I can't believe people are bidding 3♦, my thoughts are more along the lines of what is this problem doing here? (Phil, say it ain't so!) There is a range of hands for partner (lets say 13-14) where you generally want to be in 3NT, but he will bid 3NT (or 3♥ to get you to bid it) with a much lower range, something like 9+. You will probably get to about 4 or 5 bad 3NTs when you had a plus on defense for every good 3NT, and often will be doubled in those cases as the partner of the 2♥ bidder may have a fair hand. Keep in mind also that they are vul, meaning the 2♥ opener is on a decent hand, and that you are probably getting them for 200 undoubled anyway when you have game, or maybe 300. 5 or 6 (or 3) imps is hardly enough upside to make this overbid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 I hate it but I end up agreeing with jdonn yet again. I see no need to make an extremely light balance when I have 3 hearts. Partner will play me for a much better hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 "my thoughts are more along the lines of what is this problem doing here? (Phil, say it ain't so!)" This was the last hand of the match and of course decided the match. I thought it was an "interesting hand." I am glad to see wide and strong viewpoints on both sides. I learn from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I can't believe people are bidding 3♦, my thoughts are more along the lines of what is this problem doing here? (Phil, say it ain't so!) There is a range of hands for partner (lets say 13-14) where you generally want to be in 3NT, but he will bid 3NT (or 3♥ to get you to bid it) with a much lower range, something like 9+. You will probably get to about 4 or 5 bad 3NTs when you had a plus on defense for every good 3NT, and often will be doubled in those cases as the partner of the 2♥ bidder may have a fair hand. Keep in mind also that they are vul, meaning the 2♥ opener is on a decent hand, and that you are probably getting them for 200 undoubled anyway when you have game, or maybe 300. 5 or 6 (or 3) imps is hardly enough upside to make this overbid. Yeah its so. I don't feel too strongly about this one and could be convinced otherwise. But I keep looking at that trick source, and it feels right to compete at these colors. OK, so we go down (sometimes a few, and sometimes cracked) in 3N. They are vul and (hopefully) understand the benefits of bidding thin games. If my RHO has the kind of hand to whack 3N, we more than likely hear some forward movement over 2♥ instead of a pass. I suppose it depends on the tendencies of my LHO, but I'm not holding any intermediates in the suit, and if hearts are 6=3=1=3 around the table, there's a lot of holdings where they are picking up the suit for one loser. I don't think an acceptable dummy for 3♦ is too much to ask, and I'm not terribly ashamed about putting this one down for 3N. But I'll listen to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 jdonn, what's the problem of bidding 3♦? The diamond suit is robust. It's not like you're bidding it on KJxxx or something ;) Besides, there's only one hint at passing, and that is the heart length. Had we had Ax of hearts and a club more, 3♦ would have been completely clear-cut to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchett Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 what's the problem of bidding 3♦? The diamond suit is robust. It's not like you're bidding it on KJxxx or something Problems are Partner might bid 3NT and RHO will be in a good position to double if that's the right actionEven if 3NT is making, 2H rates to be a few off vulnerable so the upside is limitedA fair amount of the time that 3D is making partner will bid on taking you to a minus position Besides, there's only one hint at passing, and that is the heart length. Had we had Ax of hearts and a club more, 3♦ would have been completely clear-cut to me. with that shape double would be clear-cut for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I'm a 3♦ bidder, but it depends on who I'm playing with. With f2f p, I'd bid 3♦ in a nanosecond, because we have the agreement that 4th seat bids can be weaker than direct seat. So he won't expect that much of me anyway. Only 1 question remains here: are they going to make 2♥ or not? ♥ will split 3-3 or 3-2 with the Q onside, so I guess they'll make it. That's why I'll bid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I'm going to pass. If we're missing game this should be going off, and I'm worried that bidding will turn a positive into a negative, or a small negative into a big negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchett Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Only 1 question remains here: are they going to make 2♥ or not? ♥ will split 3-3 or 3-2 with the Q onside, so I guess they'll make it. That's why I'll bid... I think you'll find the QH is offside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 jdonn, what's the problem of bidding 3♦? The diamond suit is robust. It's not like you're bidding it on KJxxx or something :D Besides, there's only one hint at passing, and that is the heart length. Had we had Ax of hearts and a club more, 3♦ would have been completely clear-cut to me. There is another hint at passing. Your hand isn't good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Pass...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 There is another hint at passing. Your hand isn't good! What do you mean it's not good? I think it is. Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on our standards for balancing bids :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Bob Hamman decided to bid 3D, I am not sure if that means his style is to get in and bid almost all balanced 11 hcp over preempts or just in the balance seat? It is the type of situation I wish we could hear more on the thought process and decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkle Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 Bob Hamman decided to bid 3D, I am not sure if that means his style is to get in and bid almost all balanced 11 hcp over preempts or just in the balance seat? It is the type of situation I wish we could hear more on the thought process and decision making. How did this decide the match? Nickell won their round-of-16 match by 64. Do you mean the round of 8? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted May 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 ya maybe it was the round of 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 It may be worth noting Nickell was down by 38 entering the final quarter of their round of 8 match. It is most likely that Hamman was trying to create swings to some extent, which is pretty strong evidence to me that he expects 3♦ NOT to be bid at the other table if the auction is similar. As much as I think 3♦ is a bad bid, it's a very reasonable swinging action since it is entirely possible it could reach a game that the other table misses, if partner is on the very top end of his pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I do feel strongly that pass is correct. Yes partner might have a 12-13 count and settle for 3N, then again partner might try for slam and you go down anyway. Most of the time partner has an 8-10 count and has a vicous guess if you overcall 3D on this hand and one that is two playing tricks stronger. I think balancing on these hands (except over a 1 level bid where you have a lot of room to sort out ranges) is aiming for a very small target, and hinders your ability to hit the larger targets (game and slam). And many of its "gains" are not turning -110 into +110, its more like -110 into -50. And since your not even short in hearts it may be turning +50 into -50. I don't even think this is close to a 3D bid..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 3, 2006 Report Share Posted May 3, 2006 I am very surprised that Bob Hamman bid 3D on this hand. Perhaps someone (who hopefully has not left the forum) can ask him to explain here what his reasons were for bidding 3D and what he thinks about it in retrospect. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 :lol: Must be a close decision based on the commentary, but Bob did bid 3♦, so it can't be too outre. Indeed, you are not vul and pard figures to have 3 or 4 diamonds based on your heart holding and no 2♠ overcall. Are you going to make a speculative partscore double at IMPs with Bob Hamman at the wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 I congratulate you on your fine partners, mine do not rate to have 3-4 diamonds here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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