After 4 hearts...

[whereagles]

Matchpoints, adv field, you hold at none vuln:

 

♠ Axx

♥ Axx

♦ xxx

♣ AKxx

 

RHO you

4♥ ...??

 

Players are as follows:-

RHO: erratic bidder and player, with a flair to randomize results. Can open 4♥ on just about anything (weak or strong!).

Pard: pragmatic, but not very reliable player.

LHO: too scared by your expertise to dare double you, even with a trump stack.

 

You'd like to be able to double for penalties, but you can't :) Dbl is take-out and pard isn't the sort of person who passes these often.

 

Under these circumstances, do you risk doubling or not?

[Free]

No, I don't feel the need to Dbl...

[Guest Jlall]

Sure I'll X. If partner pulls to 5 of a minor thats great. If he bids 4S we may be in the 4-3 but he'll have some heart shortness. If he passes that's fine. I agree with not Xing when you have them set with trump tricks but when you have them set in honor cards and support for every other suit and just Axx of hearts, I think it's fine to X.

[mikeh]

Given the conditions of contest, in which partner will usually pull when he should pass, I pass. This hand does not rate to produce 10 or 11 tricks opposite the average hand opposite..... if I were playing with a player, I would double, expecting him not to pull without 5♠ or a long minor or some shapely hand with some values.... I would certainly expect that we would fail on some pulls anyway, but I expect to be maximizing the penalty most of the time and making a good deal of the times he pulls... so the odds favour doubling with a competent partner and passing with the player you describe.

 

Note: if my partner is trying to learn or we are working on a long term partnership, I double and accept my zero and discuss it after the session... as part of his education.

[pclayton]

I pass but this hand sort of reminds me of a hame where Meckstroth was playing against his kids Thursday night in a TG. Soloway opened 2D multi and Jeff bid 2S p/c. One of his sons passed with an offshape 14 and I think they either sold out to 2S or the 14 ct didn't move over his brothers advance. Jeff criticized the initial pass saying you have to get into the bidding with values.

[whereagles]

Thx all. Hands were:

 

[hv=d=s&v=n&n=sqxxhjdqxcq9xxxxx&w=saxxhaxxdxxxcakxx&e=skj9xxhq9daxxxcjt&s=stxhkt8xxxxdkjtxc]399|300|Scoring: MP

South opens 4♥.[/hv]

 

Pass sees it going down 2 for 28/50 matchpoints. If you double on, you can either score 40/50 if pard makes 4♠, or 15/50 if he goes 1 down (most likely result with this particular pard, which argues for pass :)).

[han]

Given the conditions of contest, in which partner will usually pull when he should pass, I pass. This hand does not rate to produce 10 or 11 tricks opposite the average hand opposite..... if I were playing with a player, I would double, expecting him not to pull without 5♠ or a long minor or some shapely hand with some values.... I would certainly expect that we would fail on some pulls anyway, but I expect to be maximizing the penalty most of the time and making a good deal of the times he pulls... so the odds favour doubling with a competent partner and passing with the player you describe.

 

Note: if my partner is trying to learn or we are working on a long term partnership, I double and accept my zero and discuss it after the session... as part of his education.

These are strong words Mike. Competent is quite subjective, a partner that may seem just fine to me may be completely incompetent in your eyes.

 

Take this problem for instance, it isn't clear to me at all that double is the best call. I remember MSC problem F from the September 2002 bridge world, where the expert panel overwhelmingly voted that with xxxxx xx xxx xxx they would pull the double to 4S, and clearly you'd rather defend 4S if that's partner's holding. But I trust your judgement (and Justin's too) well enough to believe that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

 

Good problem!

[mike777]

This is a great thread for us int. to learn. I only hope all the posters will explain their position in more detail.

[mikeh]

..... if I were playing with a player, I would double, expecting him not to pull without 5♠ or a long minor or some shapely hand with some values.... I would certainly expect that we would fail on some pulls anyway, but I expect to be maximizing the penalty most of the time and making a good deal of the times he pulls... so the odds favour doubling with a competent partner and passing with the player you describe.

 

Note: if my partner is trying to learn or we are working on a long term partnership, I double and accept my zero and discuss it after the session... as part of his education.

These are strong words Mike. Competent is quite subjective, a partner that may seem just fine to me may be completely incompetent in your eyes.

 

.

 

Good problem!

Sorry, Hannie: i was just commenting on the info that whereagles gave us: he described a partner who would not pass a double on many hands on which pass would be the best call.... I was trying to say that if I played with someone who would tend to take out the double only with unusual shape (I don't mean a freakish hand, just a shapely one), as I think all 'competent' players would do... then I'd double, but with the posted conditions, unless I was trying to teach partner (and partner wanted to learn), I'd pass.

 

And I suspect that our views of 'competent' are close..... :)

[Kalvan14]

It is clearly a double. The only reason to pass would be playing with a less-than-competent (where competent does not equal world class or expert), casual partner. If this is not a casual partner, double: even if pard pulls with the wrong hand, it's a good opportunity to discuss high-level take-out doubles.

[whereagles]

Even playing with our favourite pard, I think it's close between double and pass. Pard is short in hearts, so, if he has something worth saying, he'll make some move.