Is this an opening?

[xx1943]

Hi all

 

[hv=d=e&v=a&s=s986543hq9dakcq85]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

 

I'm not only interested in your bid, but the reasons why, because I couldn't convince my partner. :D

 

Ty all :P

 

Al

[paulg]

This looks a perfectly normal 1♠ opener and no other opening bid would occur to me. In particular I think 2♠ is very poor.

 

I understand my opening standards are lower than many and this is the type of hand that gets the occasional '11 points -- bad bid partner' when it goes wrong with a pickup partner on BBO.

 

But it does have only 7 losers, meets the Rule of 20 (when I typically use 19) and may preempt the opponents when it's their hand.

 

Paul

[coyot]

Weak 2 is out of question, partners get mad at me when they lead their K from Kx against any contract :P.

 

1♠ could be considered, but I really dislike my values and will rather pass and see what happens. If my partner has some strength, perhaps my queens will gain more value. If LHO opens the bidding, I have a good reopen.

[zasanya]

My opening criteria requires 2+ quick tricks, 8 losers or less, 12 points and a reasonable rebid.I do open on 11 points if I have a reasonable rebid. This means the 11 pointer hand should have a decent 6 card suit or 2 decent suits.Since this hand does not have a suit worth rebidding, better pass and await developments.

This hand seems a fine defensive hand and I won't mind defending with it.

[Free]

1♠ or pass, depends on how solid you usually open. 2♠ (or any preempt to show a weak hand with ♠) is a very poor bid, since your suit is rubish...

 

I'd bid 1♠

[Walddk]

Not a thing of beauty by any means, and passing the hand would not be a major crime in my opinion. On the other hand, I like to get into a constructive auction as soon as possible and that is more likely to happen if I open the bidding. 1♠ for me it is.

 

In a bidding competition recently I was presented with this hand, both vulnerable at IMPs:

 

♠ xxxxx

♥

♦ AQJx

♣ A10xx

 

I was one of the 8 panelists (of 14) who voted for 1♠. 4 passed the hand. A reluctant opening I must admit, because a rebid of 2♠ over a 2♥ response really hurts, does it not? I mean, 1♠ followed by 2♠ with zero hcp in your *5-card* suit!

 

Anyway, you've got to bid hand you are dealt, and although 1♠ is not pretty, I still think it's the right bid - for both hands.

 

Roland

[hatchett]

♠ xxxxx

♥

♦ AQJx

♣ A10xx

 

This is a much stronger hand than the semi-balanced hand with six low spades which has two dubious short queens. THe hand above has a second ace and very strong playing strength in three strains.

[joker_gib]

I agree with Hatchett that the second hand showed by Roland is much stronger but I would open the 1st one too.

 

When you open, partner is aware that your suit can be very bad. If you wait here you cannot overcall later with this non existent suit.

 

Alain

[inquiry]

Send your partner to Zar points webpage... here distributional points are 13, hcp are 11, control points are 3, this totals 27 zar points. I would remove one point for Qx doubleton, but this is still 26 zar points. If you or your partner follows ZAR, then 26 is a normal opening and 25 is enough when holding the spade suit. So there is a "quantitative" assessment that suggest this is an opening bid, but barely. If one wanted to remove another "point" for lack of hcp in long suit and for all controls in a short suit (judgement isssues) it could shrink to an absolute minimum opener or even sub opener.

 

I would never open this a weak two, but oddly, I would open it 1♠.

[whereagles]

A rather revolting holding, but I think most would open it. If something, it preempts the whole 1 level.

[Codo]

I would like to pass, but this takes the risk, that I will seldom be able to show my pd 11 HCPS and a 6 card spade suit.

And IF the hand is passsed out, we surely missed a partial somewhere.

So it is 1 Spade for me too, because the risk of getting over board is smaller then the risk if I pass.

[Finch]

I suppose I would open 1S, but I don't feel at all happy about it.

 

Roland's hand has more playing strength, but it presents a different problem, which is that you may miss your best fit by opening 1S, as you are unlikely to be able to bid all three suits while still limiting your hand. I'd open it 1S as well, but the downside is different. You'd actually feel a lot happier passing if the auction started something like P 1H P 3H (or whatever) because you can double happily. On the 6223 you will wish you'd bid the first time round.

[whereagles]

With Roland's hand you could try opening 1♦, since you have a good rebid to whatever pard responds..

[Walddk]

With Roland's hand you could try opening 1♦, since you have a good rebid to whatever pard responds..

Two panelists suggested that. I disagree because you will never be able to convince partner that you have 5 spades without showing 6 diamonds in the process.

 

Roland

[inquiry]

With Roland's hand you could try opening 1♦, since you have a good rebid to whatever pard responds..

Two panelists suggested that. I disagree because you will never be able to convince partner that you have 5 spades without showing 6 diamonds in the process.

 

Roland

I would open 1♦ too.. As far as trying to convince partner I have "five" spades, I wouldn't worry too much about that, because while Rolands hand has "xxxxx" (five) little x's in spades, that looks a lot more like a four card suit to me than a five.

[Blofeld]

I'm reasonably happy opening this 1♠ or passing. 2♠ is disgusting.

[Walddk]

With Roland's hand you could try opening 1♦, since you have a good rebid to whatever pard responds..

Two panelists suggested that. I disagree because you will never be able to convince partner that you have 5 spades without showing 6 diamonds in the process.

 

Roland

I would open 1♦ too.. As far as trying to convince partner I have "five" spades, I wouldn't worry too much about that, because while Rolands hand has "xxxxx" (five) little x's in spades, that looks a lot more like a four card suit to me than a five.

Not unreasonable as long as you are prepared to give up on a 5-3 spade fit. I am not. Generally speaking: I do not like to distort my shape, and that is also the reason why I never open 1♦ with 4-5 in the minors.

 

 

Roland

[Miron]

I would pass the hand, imho it is quite weak:

• Qx
  
• AK and no more
  
• 6 spades without honor
  

With the three-color: I would open and I'm not sure whether 1♦ or 1♠. 1♠ probably.

[hrothgar]

Very nasty hand

 

From my perspective, I'm torn between pass and 1♠. (I'd never consider 2♠ in second seat, nor does anything weird really grab me)

 

Opening 1♠ within the context of a standard system seems problematic. Despite the 6th spade, this hand is quite weak. Simply put, partner will normally be expecting a better hand for 1♠. (For what is worth, K+R evaluates this hand as a 9.7 count)

 

Passing also highly problematic. As I noted in an earlier thread, the danger in passing with this hand is that you could very well be screwed during a competitive auction. If you are forced to introduce the Spades at a high level your partner might expect that the Spade bid is a fit showing.

 

Personally, I lean towards pass, however, I consider this close. RHO's initial pass is actually significant to this decision. Its a lot less likely that RHO is going to be able to make some kind of annoying jump overcall.

 

For those who claim that this is easily strong enough to open: Count all the Zar points that you want. At the end of the day, you're sitting on Ace/King tight, Queen dub, and Qxx. Unsupported honors, isolated in short suits really don't pull their weight. I really think that you need a more significant adjustment than reducing the Zar point total from 27 to 26.

 

Let's change the honor placement a bit and create the following hand

 

♠ AQxxxx

♥ xx

♦ xx

♣ KQx

 

If you use K+R, this hand re-evaluates to a 13.1 count and is easily strong enough to open.

[Guest Jlall]

I feel very comfortable passing this hand. Different strokes for different folks. I have a terrible suit, terrible honor structure (stray queens in short suits, and an AK doubleton), and just 11 points to begin with anyways. I have no singletons. I'm not tempted. This is very much a style and partnership thing.

[han]

Pass and 1S are both fine with me, it depends mostly on with whom I play.

[jdonn]

This hand is really not worth opening. That is not to say that opening couldn't work, but every honor is poorly placed and downgradable.

 

I always thought Zar points were kind of dumb, and this hand does nothing to change my mind. It says this hand has a little to spare before not being an opener? K&R is much more accurate, though if people use their noodles none of these things are necessary. K&R increase the value of this hand by over 4 points if you move AK and a Q to spades, which seems pretty accurate.

 

I would rather open

KQ98xx xx Ax xxx than

98xxxx Qx AK Qxx

which is how silly I think opening is on this hand.

[xx1943]

Ty all for responding,

 

my pd opened 2♠ indeed, found me with 0 5 6 2, went down 3 against nothing, complained his bad luck and told me what cards he expected from me. :ph34r:

 

 

[hv=d=e&v=a&n=shat742djt8432cj6&w=skqjhk83d97ca9432&e=sat72hj65dq65ckt7&s=s986543hq9dakcq85]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West  North East South

 

    -         -     Pass    2♠

Pass   Pass  Pass

 

 

:P Cheers :)

 

Al

[joshs]

I thought for about 1 second before passing. Maybe less. This hand has horrible values. A terrible Primary suit, unsupported Q's, one of which is in a doubleton and AK tight which is also a slight downgrade. I think that this is worse than a random ten count. So unless you open random ten counts, I think pass is clear....

 

Note: This hand evaluates to 9.5 in my evaluation methods, without taking into account the AK tight which is a slight additional downgrade.

 

K&R gives it 9.4. Thats about right.

[xx1943]

Hi

another question: if the South hand is opened 1♠, how should the biding go

1) if WEST bids 2♣ (which is even at IMP a sound bid imho)?

2) if West passes ?

 

Al