A Bit More Complicated

[hrothgar]

Thanks for all of the replies:

 

We're now going to jump into Never-Never land. For whatever reason you decide to pass the 1H opening. (Presumably you felt that double and then backing in was batter than a flawed double, 1NT, or 2D) LHO opponent bids 2C (natural, showing clubs), your partner passes, and RHO raises to 3♣.

 

To review, the auction is

 

(P) - P - (1H) - P

(2C) - P - (3C) - ???

 

Back to you....

 

For convenience, I'll repeat your hand

 

♠ AJx

♥ KQxx

♦ Axxxx

♣ A

[mike777]

4C OTher.

 

Not sure what x means here so I will bid 4C, I sure hope that means bid something partner?

[mikeh]

Abstain:

 

I would have had to have been in a coma or otherwise non-fuctional to have passed 1♥. It seems improbable that I would have come back to consciousness at precisely this point.... or that neither the opps nor partner noted my condition.

 

If I were being called in to replace the Trappist monk whose vow of silence extended to the use of bidding boxes, I would honour his wishes and pass again.... after all: any bid I make will inflict unnecessary mental anguish on partner.... not to mention suggesting a slightly (????) different hand than the one I hold.

 

I mean, who knows what 4♣ should mean? But it doesn't mean this hand.

 

And double? Maybe it should mean this hand type.... after all, with 4 chunky ♠ and values, I'd bid earlier. With 5-5 in the unbids, I'd bid earlier. With a good ♦ suit and values, I'd bid earlier. With a strong notrump, I'd bid earlier...

 

 

Wait a second... with this hand I'd bid earlier....

 

I surrender to the insanity and pass again. I can always say that I am being consistent.... next hand, as dealer, I may have to pass AKxxx AKx AQx Kxx to maintain that image.

[david_c]

I think double here is takeout of clubs with length in hearts. This is on general principles: it's the same as an auction like (1♣) : p : (1♥) : p , (2♣) : p : (p) : X. Of course you wouldn't expect to have a hand good enough for this double unless you'd forgotten to bid on the previous round ... which miraculously is the case here, so double seems perfect.

[1eyedjack]

I don't fancy game our way, after RHO has opened, and LHO has made a 2/1 response (despite that he is a passed hand). I don't expect partner to pass a double at this stage, even if he has a hand that with hindsight would have wished to do so. So I shall take my "chances" at defending now. Were I to double, chances are partner would chose Spades when Diamonds would have been better. Who knows, LHO may yet bid again if I pass (which he certainly would not if I took action now).

 

So I vote for pass.

[han]

What kind of question is this, only 2 out of 38 voters passed, and I didn't see anybody else mentioning it.

[zasanya]

I voted other because I will ask for undo.

[paulg]

Although this is a flawed problem, the meaning of double is still interesting.

 

I believe it is takeout and probably includes length in hearts. I would not expect that hand to be this good (else double earlier) but it must suggest 4 spades and longer diamonds.

 

The strength of the bid would depend on the forcing nature, or not, of 3♣

 

p

[mr1303]

Assuming that 2C shows around 9/10+ points (despite being a passed hand) here and that the 3C raise shows a full opening bid, partner is marked with the equivalent of b*gger all.

 

So I pass.

 

Of course I wouldn't be guessing in this position, having bid something the first time round.

[kgr]

I surrender to the insanity and pass again. I can always say that I am being consistent.... next hand, as dealer, I may have to pass AKxxx AKx AQx Kxx to maintain that image.

Next hand I open 1NT with xxx=xxx=xxxx=xxx. No psych, it will be about correct on average.

[whereagles]

Well, having passed, I can now bid 3♦. Opps have a fit, so I should have a fit as well. Seems simple to me, so where did I go wrong? :(

 

Incidently, had I bid 2♦ initially, I could now make that "max overcall double".

[Finch]

I haven't voted in the other poll (though I would have bid 1NT).

I don't think pass over 1H is quite as bad as people are saying.

 

But anyway, having passed over 1H I now double 3C which shows a take-out double of clubs. A slightly more likely shape than the one I have is something like 3541, or even 4540.

[hatchett]

Double here shows this shape or so, take out of clubs with long hearts and would be my choice.

[asdfg2k]

There is a method to Richard's madness. Trust him.

 

There are 3 who voted for pass this time, as opposed to only 2 who did so the last time and the sampling size is smaller. Hence, it seems like there is a greater likelihood that pass is a bid worth considering the second time around, given the presumption of a pass the first time around.

 

Let's go one more step, if you can gird yourself to play along.....

 

Remember, you are forced into accepting that you would have passed the second time around given the information to date ....

 

Now, right after your second pass, your RHO announces that there was a failure to alert (ignore whether the timing of the announcement is proper or not) and explains that the 2c bid should have been alerted and announced as "natural, shows clubs, non-forcing, HCP range of zero to 10".

 

Given this new information, the question is: if you had been told about the new information on a timely basis (that is, the 2c bid was alerted and explained as above), with the auction being the same as before, are you more likely than before to do something other than pass after the 3c bid? Why?

 

Sometimes directors have to sort out the darndest things, huh? Keep that in mind when you reply, as it does no good to rant about how comatose you must have been to pass the first time around! Or how brain-dead you must have been to consider passing the second time you were given a chance to bid. <g,d&r>

[Free]

Apparently I didn't have a plan when passing the first round, so I'll pass again. Ofcourse this gets more complicated than just bidding 1NT the first round... ;)

[jdeegan]

;) Pass. I gotta go along with Free's analysis. You shudda bid 1NT the first time. You have made your bed, so lie in it. Your hand has half its high cards in the opponent's suits. Pard figures to have some club length, hence less length in spades or diamonds, and very few high cards (the delayed alert notwithstanding). Unless you have a diamond fit, the hand will be a mess for whomever gets the bid. Why risk going for a number? Just pass and settle for a small plus score (most of the time, anyway). You made a bad bid the first time, and it may lead to a poor result for you, but compounding the error by doubling now makes no sense to me.

 

Look at it this way, if RHO opened 3 clubs and LHO (who never lies) looked at you and said "I have an opening bid in terms of high cards and a decent fit with partner plus a heart suit", what would you do?

[pclayton]

I don't think the initial pass is all that bad. 1N doesn't guarantee you are going to find the easy 3N opposite the right 6 count.

 

But its awfully hard to catch up now.

[joshs]

Let say you missosrted you hand the first time and had AJx AQxxx Kxxx A, and passed, now you have an absolutely textbook x of 3C. A penalty x of 1H, with shortage in clubs, and good all around defense. The actual hand is not that far off, although KQxx in hearts in not the best holding when responder is likely short in hearts....

 

I still don't think the first pass was that bad if white vs red, since you have no clear bid, and great defense.