Penalty Pass?

[han]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=sq10xhk652dqjxcqjx]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

Partner opens 1D, RHO bids 2H. Do you bid 2NT immediately, do you pass planning to convert partner's reopening double, or do you have some other plan?

[inquiry]

2NT natural with 11 hcp and one stopper is not bad. Do you endplay yourself with pass? By that I mean, is pass then 2NT over partners certain reopening double lebehnshol-ish/GB2NT-ish?

 

Since I kibitzed this hand, my answers maybe tainted by knowning the result. Having said that, I think neither hand was vulnearble at the table in real life (I could be wrong). IF vul, I would bid and immediate 2NT to try to get to 3NT. Being not vul, I like to think that I would pass. After 2NT I respect partners decision.

 

However, if I pass, over the double, if 2NT is GB2nt, then I would probably bid 3♦ if we are vul (best shot at getting to the vul game). If neither side was vul, I probably would pass the double and hope my fourth trump and off suit QJ's and QT's along with partners double is enough to set the opponents.

 

A hidden comment"

 

BTW... Interesting hand due to the negative value held by the two black queens during play (discarding them early would have been useful). With your stuff in all side suits, and partners presumed values in all side suits (takeout double), what should the opening lead be if you defend?

 

[helene_t]

If partner reopens with a double, both sides are likely to have 8 trumps but might have only 7. So there are 15 or 15.5 total trumps. The minor honours in diamonds are a positve correction factor. The ♥K is a small negative one but otherwise the hand is pure. I need 16 total trumps to play 3♦ and 8 enemy trumps to play 2NT. So this is borderline, the LOTT doesn't really help me. I trust me intuition and bid 2NT.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

since for me 2NT would be art. (Good/Bad), I cant

bid it natural "to play".

If possible I will bid it, if 2NT is art., I will bid it

anyway, playing 3NT.

 

I dont think, that the heart szuit is strong enough

to convert a reopening dbl.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

PS: I wont pass bid over dbl, since this is a weak

seq.

[JohnnyH7]

I think playing for penalties is absolutely nuts with such poor hearts, poor shape, and no aces and 1 king. Just because we have a majority of the high cards doesn't mean we will beat them when they have a long suit and their side cards are all aces or kings.

 

2N is a slight overbid since this hand probably evaluates to a poor 10 or so (I'm sure some evaluation methods would downgrade this to 8 or something, but thats going overboard). On the upside, I can hold up in hearts and I have a lot of finessing positions through the partner of the preempter.

 

FWIW I would use pass then 2N as scrambling and not natural (or lebensohl).

[Chamaco]

Here are my thoughts, and I shall appreciate a lot any feedback from the BB Friends:

 

My main philosophy about passing these hand types is

 

"Pass only if you are planning to convert pard's reopening double. If I have to find an awkward bid over pard's DBL, then I'd rather bid 2NT right away".

 

Having said that, I think I'd bid 2NT at unfavourable vulnerability, but I would pass at any other vulnerability, not fearing to convert pard's double: my hand has slow tricks all over the place, which should hopefully guarantee the tricks we need in the side suits...

 

I expect to set the contract by 2+ tricks, which in the worst case scenario means 300 vs 400 or 500 vs 600 (excluding the case of unfav vuln, where inded I'd bid 2NT right away)

[whereagles]

What a bunch of quacks... I'll probably end up bidding 2NT, but not too happy about it ;)

[mike777]

pass and then 2nt if my p opens on junk

 

3NT now if they open Roth/Stone style.

 

Opening style seems to really matter on many of these close decisions.

[mikeh]

Tough hand, so good problem :)

 

The hand is not worth 11 hcp, because of the lack of aces and kings: quacks are overvalued in 4321.

 

It is so poor that, had the opps overcalled 1♥, I would have no qualms about the 'underbid' of 1N.

 

As it is, I agree with others that pass followed by 2N is often played as artificial (I do, usually) so for me that is out. If it is possible, as natural, then it is my choice: treating the hand as worth about 9 hcp.

 

If it is not possible, then I will bid a natural 2N now... it is an overbid, but I really seem to have no other plausible choice.

 

Pass and pass the reopening double is ugly: I have precisely 1 trump trick and no real hope of ever promoting a 2nd. Partner will/should reopen with many hands on which the opps have an easy 8 tricks.

 

And there is no other remotely possible call that I can see.... if others have one, I look forward to reading about it :)

[whereagles]

It is so poor that, had the opps overcalled 1♥, I would have no qualms about the 'underbid' of 1N.

Amazing.. we agree on this one :)

 

Where's the world coming to? :)

[han]

I admit to my crimes, I passed and the opponents made 2HX :angry:.

[HeartA]

I agree with Ben's analysis and I would bid 2NT.

[whereagles]

I admit to my crimes, I passed and the opponents made 2HX :).

Thy sins shalt be forgiven, for thou hadst confessed :(

[helene_t]

If you are playing a weak 1NT, a penalty pass is tempting since partner might have a 15-17 balanced.

 

If you play a strong 1NT, partner rates to have at least five diamonds for a reopening double so 3♦ would normally be better than 2NT. I prefer 2NT because ♥K is worth more in notrumps than in a trump contract, and because an immediate 2NT shows what I have which I might not be able to show if I support diamonds in some way.

[000002]

------------- partner rates to have at least five diamonds so 3♦ would normally be better than 2NT. -------

i agree you .

and ,if LHO can lead ♥,it means my partner has 0-2card ♥ only,so he has a 5card ♦ unless his shape is 4243 or 4144.

 

 

2NT, i love u

[keylime]

I'm not passing. I'm bidding 2NT, natural, if I have that option.

 

Passing and letting partner double in, punishes them on many hand types. Take pard off the hook.

[Echognome]

I agree that the hand is close. I'm not sure if this is the right reasoning, but I would be more inclined to leave it in at MPs. Getting 200 can be a top and I'm only risking a bottom.

 

At teams, I am a bit more hesitant, only because I do not expect to make enough to warrant the risk. I think the chance of 500 here isn't that great. Vulnerable opps usually have their bids. The other thing is that if I bid on, they make take a further push and I will feel much more comfortable doubling them then. I wonder in fact if Reese would bid 3♦ on this hand in hopes that this would push the opponents higher?

[han]

Inquiry said:

Since I kibitzed this hand, my answers maybe tainted by knowning the result. Having said that, I think neither hand was vulnearble at the table in real life (I could be wrong).

 

Echognome said:

Vulnerable opps usually have their bids.

 

Thanks for the trust guys! B) :(

 

I was pretty sure about it, but I looked it up and the vulnerability was correct, we were red and they were white. The vulnerability was a major consideration for me in passing (right or wrong).

[Echognome]

LOL. Then can I claim to have had my bid as I was vulnerable?