safer alternatives to Lorenzo weak 2's?

[rbforster]

As discussed in this thread on the Olt-Brink system, one feature of their system is that EVERY weak hand must preempt! Your 4333 0-count must find a bid. The method they use is called Lorenzo weak 2's which might have only a 4 card suit and is described by Free here (major bids could have minor suit canape). I'm looking to apply these ideas to a similar constructive pass system.

 

My question is whether anyone has any "safer" suggestions for bidding at the 2 (or 3) level, where you must bid with all hand types. For example, one could use certain 2 bids to show 2-suiters, 3-suiters, or other special hand types. These methods would presumably leads to better fits when they come up, although there might be tradeoffs treating other hand types. I enjoyed reading the discussion here on designing a preempt structure, although of course that focused on only bidding certain distributional hand types rather than bidding all hand types. Frequency isn't an issue here, since all hands must find a bid.

 

Here are a few ideas for comparison:

 

- Longest suit, just bid it

• all show 4+ (prefer majors to minors and otherwise cheaper of equal lengths)
  

- Lorenzo, like 4 card major openings

• 2♥/♠ 4+, could have a longer minor, prefer cheaper of equal length majors
  
• 2♣/♦ 4+, no 4 card major, prefer cheaper of equal length minors
  

- modified DONT

• 2♣ = 1 suiter, may be 4333 (2♦ asks)
  
• 2♦/♥/♠ shows 44+ in the suit bid and a higher suit (possibly clubs)
  

- 5 card majors

• 2♥/♠ promises 5+
  
• 2♣/♦ promises 3+
  

I was intrigued by the use of 2♥ Multi (a single suiter in either major), but I'm not sure how that would fit in to a comprehensive system. Maybe something like this?

• 2♣ single suiter in a minor
  
• 2♦ 2 or 3 suiter without spades
  
• 2♥ single suiter in a major
  
• 2♠ 2 or 3 suiter with spades
  

I'm sure some of these are better than others, and there are probably other good ideas I overlooked. Any other thoughts or suggestions?

[Free]

It's quite easy to find some bids which covers all distributions, however, it becomes brown sticker quite fast! Several pairs at top level in Belgium play random 2♣, which basicly includes any hand with 0-5HCP. No suit with at least 4 cards is known, so BSC...

 

Your suggestions have the same problems: modified DONT has a 2♣ BSC, 5 card Majors also have 2m openings BSC, and your last example uses 2♣ and 2♥ BSC.

 

A close to non BSC structure is following:

2♣: 3+♣, includes all 4333's and hands with ♣ (still BSC, but close to not being one)

2♦: 4+♦, not completely balanced, so basicly 5+♦ or 4-4 with a Major

2♥: 4+♦, not completely balanced, so basicly 5+♥ or 4-4 with ♠

2♠: 5+♠

 

This improves safety a lot (I use this structure over SOS Redoubles over 1NT opening) because the 4333's aren't bid natural and partner can easily bid a 5 card suit at 2-level, but introduces 2♣ as BSC because it doesn't promisse a 4+ card for sure... Most of the time it's 4+♣, but not always...

 

One of the big advantages of pure Lorenzo's is that it can't be banned, since it's cathegory RED, which is allowed almost everywhere over here ;)

[rbforster]

Thanks for your thoughts Free. I know you play Lorenzo two's so I'm glad to hear from you. As for BSC, etc, I'm in the US and GCC defines "natural" suits as 4+ majors or 3+ minors. So my 5 card majors is GCC as is your suggestion with 2♣ balanced or clubs. I'll probably go with your method, actually - it seems pretty good. My DONT's 2♣ bid or any of the Multi-based bids besides 2♠ are all banned, not even superchart ;).

 

Random 2♣ - wow, 2♣ as your fert... and I thought 1♠ fert was aggressive.

[hrothgar]

Thanks for your thoughts Free. I know you play Lorenzo two's so I'm glad to hear from you. As for BSC, etc, I'm in the US and GCC defines "natural" suits as 4+ majors or 3+ minors. So my 5 card majors is GCC as is your suggestion with 2♣ balanced or clubs. I'll probably go with your method, actually - it seems pretty good. My DONT's 2♣ bid or any of the Multi-based bids besides 2♠ are all banned, not even superchart ;).

 

Random 2♣ - wow, 2♣ as your fert... and I thought 1♠ fert was aggressive.

Back in the day, Marston - Burgess varied their Fert based on vulnerability.

 

They used 2♣ NC and 1♠ vulnerable

[han]

This is quite similar to what Frederick suggested:

 

2S = 5-6 spades.

2H = 5-6 hearts.

2D = 5-6 diamonds.

2C = anything else.

 

Over 2C, there will be some 2D relay, and 2H and 2S are non-forcing. Important are your agreemtents after 2C gets doubled. I suggest the following agreements for opener:

 

pass = 4+ clubs.

redouble = 1-2 clubs, therefore either 4-4-4-1 or some 4-4-3-2 with 2 clubs.

With exactly 3 clubs, bid 2D except when precisely 4-4-2-3, then bid 2H.

 

Of course, responder can also make an SOS redouble.