Watercooler dispensing only hot water

[hrothgar]

In the passage you quoted, Claus said, that many europians don't speak english and therefor are unable to discuss topics of their interest here.

Funny that...

 

English is the most common spoken language used in the EU

http://europa.eu.int/comm/education/polici...s/index_en.html

[GeeGee]

Maybe we should redefine the Water Cooler as a place for BBO players to know each other better, not as a discussion forum about anything.

 

Luis

This sums it up for me. I just ignore the argumentative threads, as I don't think there is anything to gain from them.

[csdenmark]

In the passage you quoted, Claus said, that many europians don't speak english and therefor are unable to discuss topics of their interest here.

Completely correct. Those I play bridge with are those I am most interested to discuss with.

 

The turks are not here - the italians are not here - the french are not here - the bulgarians are not here - the romanians are not here - the poles are not here.

 

They are normally able to handle very simple words in english - enough for bridge but far from enough to express their views. I am very much interested in voices especially from Turkey about the process for their country to join EU. Of crucial importance for most europeans.

 

Please dont address me - I have logged out.

[hotShot]

In the passage you quoted, Claus said, that many europians don't speak english and therefor are unable to discuss topics of their interest here.

Funny that...

 

English is the most common spoken language used in the EU

http://europa.eu.int/comm/education/polici...s/index_en.html

Interesting page!

 

So maybe, Claus is wrong.

 

But guess why there is an italian and polish BBO forum. I bet you remember that there used to be a dutch forum, but since most people from the netherlands speak english, it wasn't used so much and closed down.

The ability to speak english, is not evenly distributed across europe.

 

The same is with the ability to speak chinese, about 20% of the world population can speak chinese, but there are almost none where I live.

[Sigi_BC84]

English is the most common spoken language used in the EU

http://europa.eu.int/comm/education/polici...s/index_en.html

The ability to speak english, is not evenly distributed across europe.

Indeed it's not.

 

Richard, you have mentioned several times that giving the mean of a distribution is not enough, one often needs additional parameters such as standard deviation or variance to draw useful conclusions.

 

The distribution of English speakers is a good example. Most of the French I've met in my life (quite a few) were awful at speaking English and the same goes for many Spaniards and Italians. I can't say much about the Turks but most of those I've met on BBO were hardly able to alert their calls. Many Germans are not that good either. The Europeans with excellent English usually come from small countries (Netherlands, Belgium and Scandinavian countries) or from eastern Europe (for obvious reasons I won't repeat here).

 

--Sigi

[Free]

English is the most common spoken language used in the EU

http://europa.eu.int/comm/education/polici...s/index_en.html

The ability to speak english, is not evenly distributed across europe.

Indeed it's not.

 

Richard, you have mentioned several times that giving the mean of a distribution is not enough, one often needs additional parameters such as standard deviation or variance to draw useful conclusions.

 

The distribution of English speakers is a good example. Most of the French I've met in my life (quite a few) were awful at speaking English and the same goes for many Spaniards and Italians. I can't say much about the Turks but most of those I've met on BBO were hardly able to alert their calls. Many Germans are not that good either. The Europeans with excellent English usually come from small countries (Netherlands, Belgium and Scandinavian countries) or from eastern Europe (for obvious reasons I won't repeat here).

 

--Sigi

True, but many people from small countries make a large number of people.

 

Don't get offended here, I'm just generalizing, but Germans, Frenchmen, Spaniards and Italians all think they already speak a world language and that it's not necessary to learn another language...

[42]

...Don't get offended here, I'm just generalizing, but Germans, Frenchmen, Spaniards and Italians all think they already speak a world language and that it's not necessary to learn another language...

I don't agree, at least not for Germans: we all have to learn at least 1 language besides German, in higher schools at least 2, there are many projects where children already learn English in the Kindergarden and elementary school. I find some "discussions" here more and more embarassing, BBF isn't the same anymore for me.

People who cry loudest don't make the truth.

Caren

[fifee]

I like Rain's rules for The Watercooler:

 

1) No personal attacks. Insults are a No-No. You can have issues with someone else's opinion and attack that (in a civilised manner hopefully), but don't go after anyone personally.

 

2) No advertising, no spam.

 

3) No obscenities.

 

Posters who engage in hateful, vulgar, threatening, knowingly illegal and inaccurate posts may be suspended not just from forums, but also our related websites.

 

In general, please follow this rule of thumb (which is a good rule I've picked up from another forum): If you aren't comfortable emailing a post to your grandmother/mother/colleague, then it probably shouldn't be posted here.

 

By posting in this forum, you have also agreed to the terms stated here.

 

If we stick to these, we will have an opportunity to get to know each other better without causing flame wars.

[Sigi_BC84]

True, but many people from small countries make a large number of people.

Exactly, that's why the average over all Europeans is reasonably high.

 

Don't get offended here, I'm just generalizing, but Germans, Frenchmen, Spaniards and Italians all think they already speak a world language and that it's not necessary to learn another language...

I'm not offended at all, don't worry ;-).

 

--Sigi

[mike777]

"Don't get offended here, I'm just generalizing, but Germans, Frenchmen, Spaniards and Italians all think they already speak a world language and that it's not necessary to learn another language..."

 

 

 

For a different take:

 

I think Technology will give us tiny digital converters in the near future that will amaze many. Look what we can read already on the internet, face to face will go digitial soon. Of course expensive and buggy at first but give it a little time.

[luke warm]

sometimes i feel like electing mike king of the world.. nano bodies, digital language converters... now if there was some way to *make* me count a hand

[han]

At first I thought the water cooler was a great idea. Then some threads became quite heated, and the level of responses went down drastically (including my own, I'm sad to say).

 

Hopefully this thread is exactly what we needed. Perhaps we can do better if we are just a little more aware of the fact that other people can be hurt by our posts.

 

 

However, if we are going to discuss things like politics, then I think that everybody should be allowed to give their opinion (in a respectful manner hopefully). For example, Phil states that he is often annoyed by the constant critique of Europeans (and others) on US policies. If we are going to discuss world politics, then surely we are going to discuss US policies (as the US plays a very important role in the world, I think nobody would deny that), and I think that everybody should be allowed to say what they think.

 

Some of these issues are on the minds of all of us, and if we can discuss things respectfully and learn something about the way people from very different backgrounds think, then that should be worth a lot. Enough that I voted for keeping the water cooler running, and perhaps stop some threads that become too heated.

[Codo]

I would prefer a water cooler in the way it is.

But maybe just because I am too blind to see the problems. Yes some threats floaded away. Some topics about "your favourite conspirtative theory" changed into: Bash the american Governement or defend them.

 

So what? Was anybody personal attaced and feeled bad about it?

 

Anybody who is upset, should just stop reading it, quite simple. After all, this is what happened to some threats. After a while, there had been just 3 or 4 writers and just few more readers. It got boring. Quite simple.

 

What else can happen?

 

Is BBO responsible for what is written in the forum?

Will american laws create some problems for them?

 

Then you surely must close the water cooler. It is not worth any problem for BBO.

[keylime]

I will be the first one to admit that the water cooler when it started, was happily welcomed by me.

 

However, after seeing how it's evolved, I'm quite hesistant to see it continue for many reasons.

[joshs]

I actually like the water cooler. The concept of community is a strange thing in the modern wired world. This is a forum where a bunch of us who share a common interest, can talk about other things. If I had such a discussion over a large lunch in the real world, I am sure that there will be some people who I got to know in a deeper way, and found out that I really liked them, or learned a lot from them even if I didn't like them and there would be others who are rude, and do not present arguments in a respectful manner. So be it. I would rather make a few friends, and feel like I have a deeper connection with the group as a whole, even if that means that I grow to dislike a few people, or are offended by a few comments.

 

Quite frankly even if I was just trading 1 friend for 1 enemy it would be a good trade.

 

Now I wish that people would:

a. if they want to have real discussions make arguments not assertions

b. hopefully learn that the world is a complex place, and there are lots of different customs, and values out there and try to be respectful of that diversity.

 

I would have expected that the europeans, having had the chance to travel more than most americans do (since they are closer to other countries and get more vacation time, etc.), would be more tolerent of other countries and cultures than americans are, but that hasn't quite been the case, and we can all do better here.

 

For instance, I think our discussion should have been:

 

"Hey its interesting that people in the US tip lots of people, while in my country we think of that like giving money to beggers. What explains this cultural difference? And is one way clearly correct? What do people think?" Rather than the way that discussion topic was presented and argued. (And there have been many other topics here that could use a similar perspective.)

 

Hopefully, curiosity about the other people here, the other cultures here, and different ideas should been the dominant motif on this discussion board.

[the saint]

I'm starting to think that everyone is taking this far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far too seriously.

 

It is because people need to be brought down to earth again that I'm now thinking of adopting a policy where I mock everyone equally; starting with myself...

 

Be warned, no-one is safe to walk these boards anymore...

[Al_U_Card]

We all know what I voted for.......maybe an "open" Water Cooler where anything goes and a "closed" one where the rules of gentility are enforced. I don't care because I have personal rules of conduct that preclude these kinds of problems and no response from anyone would shock or surprise me......disappointment is another thing entirely.

[luke warm]

I actually like the water cooler. ~snip~

excellent post and advice