Supporting with 3

[plaur]

How do you feel about supporting partner with a three card suit?

1♣ - 1♠

2♠ - 3♦

where 2♠ can be 3 spades with ruffing values, ie single or double in ♦ or ♥.

If you can support with 3 then it is my understanding that 3♦ (gametry) promises 5 spades and that 2NT would be a gametry with 4 spades?

Also as an answer to 2♠ a jump to 4♠ is a little dangerous with a 4 card suit. You could bid 3NT and partner could correct to 4♠ with a four card suit.

 

Do you agree?

 

(Playing 4 card majors you have 1♥ - 2♥ and we are still not sure of an 8 card fit)

[inquiry]

"do you agree" -- No

 

I feel perfectly happy supporting with 3 cards and ruffing value, after 1m-P-1M-P

 

I don't worry about bidding 4M after 1m-1M-2M with only four card suit if I have a game going hand. Moysein fits are often the best spot when ruffs are taken in the 3 card support hand, and partner will have shortness if he raised with three.

 

Fluffy would be so proud, I use 2NT as a general more information ask after 1m-1M-2M no a suggested contract, nor to indicate exactly 4♠. If I want to offer a choice between NT and M, I can bid immediate 3NT.

 

3♦ neither promises nor denies five cards in the major, it can be an advanced cue-bid for a slam try, or it can be a delicate 3NT probe with 4♠ and good ♦'s but heart weakness, or it can be general game try with ♦ values. The most common (since I use 2NT to explore openers hand) is ♦ values and either simple hand with game values with choice between 4♠ and 3NT (bidding 3NT next), or game try in spades, showing were values live. If it is pick game, need ♥, responder will pass 4♠ or 3NT by his partner, or bid 3NT over 3♠ (minimum hand). If it is game try in ♠ with ♦ values, responder will either pass 3/4♠ or correct 3♥ or 3NT to 4♠

[mikeh]

A useful and not too difficult to remember gadget is available after a 1m 1M 2M auction, if 2M could be 3 cards.

 

1m  1♠

2♠  2N

 

2N asks for clarification of the raise:

 

3♣ bad hand with 3 trump

3♦ good hand with 3 trump

3♥ bad hand with 4 trump

3♠ good hand with 4 trump

 

 

You can add meanings for 3N (after a 1♣ opening, 3N = maximum with 4=3=3=3, for example) and 4-level new suits as splinters

 

After 1m 1♥ 2♥, you can use 2♠ as the relay, but in my partnerships where we play this (in some partnerships, with weak 1N openings, the raise promises 4 cards so we don't need this) we stick with 2N for ease of memory.

[awm]

I like to raise on three cards frequently. I don't really understand this 2NT relay idea though: it might be useful if I'm trying to decide on slam and need to know how good our fit is, but most of the time the objective is to get to the best game. It will certainly sometimes be right (as Ben suggests) to play the 4M moysian, but it will not always be right, especially if responder has slow cards opposite opener's shortness. Keep in mind also that in many of my partnerships this "shortness" could be a small doubleton as well. It seems important to me to find out why partner raised on only three, in order to make an informed decision about 3NT versus 4M.

 

What I usually play is the following after 1♦-1♠-2♠ (for example):

 

2NT = 4-card suit game try; opener can pass with only 3♠ and a minimum. With four and a minimum bid 3♠, with three and a max make a natural call at the three-level to further describe the hand (so for example 3♣ suggests 3244 or 3154, 3♥ suggests 3442 or 3451, 3♦ shows long/good diams with three spades). With four and a max 4♠ of course.

 

3♠ = 5-card suit game try; opener passes or bids 4♠.

 

3-other = natural, forcing to game. Primarily this is looking for the best game, and suggests that opener try 3NT if this suit is his short/weak suit and he has only three-card support. It can also be the beginning of a slam try auction and the level is usually kept low (because this is GF opener can bid 3♠ with four-card support and any strength of hand).

 

The main loss is the ability to make lots of game tries. I know some people think this is really useful, but I find there are a few factors in my favor here. Comparing this auction to 1♠-2♠, the major suit raise is much more limited in part because we don't open 1m with 15-17 balanced hands. Also, something is known about opener's hand because of the choice of minor to open (we open better minor with 3-3 or 4-4). When you're facing a pretty limited hand with known values in a particular side suit, it feels to me like having four-five different ways to try for game is kind of splitting hairs, whereas the game-forcing natural bids are quite useful (allowing us to reach the right game, or to find slams in alternative strains when a 4-4 side suit fit may play better than the major fit).

[inquiry]

I like to raise on three cards frequently. I don't really understand this 2NT relay idea though: it might be useful if I'm trying to decide on slam and need to know how good our fit is, but most of the time the objective is to get to the best game.

Well, as you noted, 2NT will allow you to gently explore on hands where you are thinking about exploring slam, as you can get a further definition of partners hand. Clearly that is better than some nebulous meaning bid.

 

And what does using 2NT as forcing give up? The possibility you might play in 2NT. That is fine with me, as 2NT is not the contract of my dreams. Even if partner has only three card support, the ruffing value is probably still worth a trick. I didn't mention it here, but I play 1C-1M-2M-3C and 1D-1M-2M-3D as invitiational and passable. Opener with 3 card M support frequently passes.

 

Mikeh's scheme over 2NT is nice and I have seen it suggested elsewhere as well. It is probably best as the other treatments can be taxing on memory and come up fairly rarely. In fact, I have forgotten my own scheme a few times, so that is a strong indication that simplifying here is a good idea. But over 2NT, you can show not only range and support legnth, there are auctions that allow you to show short suit too (singleton) or lack of short suit. This is where it can become taxing. But with maximums, the schedule doesn't have to end in 3♠ as mike showed, as you are going to game anyway... so that opens up some more bids.

[cherdano]

How do you feel about supporting partner with a three card suit?

1♣ - 1♠

2♠ - 3♦

where 2♠ can be 3 spades with ruffing values, ie single or double in ♦ or ♥.

If you can support with 3 then it is my understanding that 3♦ (gametry) promises 5 spades and that 2NT would be a gametry with 4 spades?

Also as an answer to 2♠ a jump to 4♠ is a little dangerous with a 4 card suit. You could bid 3NT and partner could correct to 4♠ with a four card suit.

 

Do you agree?

 

(Playing 4 card majors you have 1♥ - 2♥ and we are still not sure of an 8 card fit)

I don't feel strongly about that, except that you should be on the same wavelength on that with partner.

 

If you only raise with 3 trumps when you have a ruffing value (singleton or weak doubleton), I agree with Ben that you can almost ignore it in the further bidding. Just play what you are used to after the raise (e.g. long suit game tries), but keep in mind that 3N is always an option with a balanced hand. A little more so with weak trumps if you raise with 3.

 

Arend

[barmar]

I didn't mention it here, but I play 1C-1M-2M-3C and 1D-1M-2M-3D as invitiational and passable. Opener with 3 card M support frequently passes.

Make sure you've discussed this with your partner, as it can be a real disaster if one thinks it's a game try in the major and the other thinks it's passable (been there, done that ;) )

[pclayton]

I play the same as Mike; 2N is an ask about strength and # of trump.

 

As a corollary, I play 3 level bids as slam tries (and guaranteeing an 8 card fit). 2N is the only game probe. I don't feel strongly about this method; you can use 3 level bids as game tries if you want.