Not as routine as I thought

[Echognome]

1♠ - P - P - X

2♥ - ?

 

What are:

 

X - ?

2♠ - ?

3♥ - ?

[mikeh]

I would think that double shows a penalty double of ♠ with some ♥ cards/length as well. Doubler is counting on balancer to hold some ♥ length, so it is primarily based on good, long ♠ but NOT ♥ shortness.

 

This may be long frequency: maybe playing it as takeout for the minors is more effective, but I think my suggestion is mainstream.

 

2♠: I think it shows a good hand with ♠ well stopped, not interested in defending and probably on the way to 3N but with no ♥ stopper, so wanting balancer to play notrump because of lead considerations

 

3♥: you got me there :( I have little idea and less confidence in what idea i have. 4=1=4=4 or equivalent, big hand, different orientation than 2♠: ie looking for a minor contract rather than 3N... as I say, I have little confidence in this and hope that the auction would not occur: I have avoided it for 33 years and doubt that I have 33 more to go, so the odds are in my favour :)

[hrothgar]

I agree with MikeH regarding the meaning of a double

 

2NT shows a Spade stopper, but unwilling to penalize Hearts

 

3♣ = takeout with both minors

 

2♠ = puppet to 2NT

[asdfg2k]

Well, you have to give up something. I prefer to give up the natural 2nt bid as that is rarely needed. I don't like leb in this sequence, because I just don't think it is needed. Also, I hate not being able to penalty double at this point. Hence, my preferences would be:

 

X = penalty

2S = I have a master plan, but it probably isn't well defined at this point (probably 4-4 in minors, but one can't be sure). Nonetheless, tell me more about your hand. Yes, you can bid 3h with 2434 if you want to, my hand is good enough that I'm not worried. If you happen to have Kx or Ax of spades, I would love to hear 2NT.

2N = t/o for minors (no indication as to strength - may be invitational to 3NT without a stopper in one of opener's suit - I'll bid 3 of the suit/fragment that I have after you tell me your minor suit preference and you can then decide whether to bid 3nt or bail in four of a minor).

3C = to play

3D = to play

3H = Strong spade holding, weak heart holding, can you bid 3nt with that knowledge?

3S = I have a master plan, and it is well defined. Bid 3nt if you have a spade stopper. I'll probably jump to 5 of a minor if you tell me that you don't have a spade stopper, but then again, maybe not. You'll just have to wait and see.

[MickyB]

Double - Pens. May or may not have been a penalty pass of 1S.

2S - Some kind of artificial force.

2N - minors

3H - Not a clue.

[Free]

Dbl penalty for ♥, best way to play this imo...

 

2♠ stopper ask

 

3♥ stopper ask

[Trinidad]

1♠-P-P-X

2♥-

 

X: Penalty, suggesting to double 2♠ too. (Could be a hand that would have bid 2NT without the 2♥ bid.)

2♠: Cue bid, INV + (normally with 4 hearts)

2NT: Both minors (see it as a responsive double)

3♣♦: Natural

3♥: Also Natural ;) (and by inference no desire to double 2♠)

 

Rik

[awm]

X = penalty; this doesn't necessarily imply desire to double spades (although often that's the case). I would start with a double if I wanted to bid hearts naturally later, or if I wanted to bid an invitational notrump from my side (although in this case defending 2♠X is often best anyway).

 

2♠ = stopper-showing; this is the usual way to invite in notrump to let partner declare and put the strong hand on lead.

 

2NT = minors

 

3♣/♦ = natural, constructive but NF

 

3♥ = gamegoing hand with both minors and heart shortness

 

3♠ = stopper-asking, this is pretty rare since doubler rarely has spades stopped, but it's possible with a potentially running minor suit (for example).

[jdonn]

X = penalty; this doesn't necessarily imply desire to double spades (although often that's the case). I would start with a double if I wanted to bid hearts naturally later, or if I wanted to bid an invitational notrump from my side (although in this case defending 2♠X is often best anyway).

 

2♠ = stopper-showing; this is the usual way to invite in notrump to let partner declare and put the strong hand on lead.

 

2NT = minors

 

3♣/♦ = natural, constructive but NF

 

3♥ = gamegoing hand with both minors and heart shortness

 

3♠ = stopper-asking, this is pretty rare since doubler rarely has spades stopped, but it's possible with a potentially running minor suit (for example).

I agree with you on all but 3♠, I'm sure that is natural. Even if the overcall wasn't a psych you can want to play in spades with a suit that has solidity and a decent hand. And stopper ask is impossible, if you have a running minor and any hand good enough to want to chance 3NT after partner's reopening double then you would have overcalled in the first place, plus partner is unlikely to have a stopper in any case as you said.

[joshs]

so are we bidding 3H with: xxx Kx AQxx AKxx?

 

I actually was figuring that this hand was a 3S bid (strong NT without a stopper) rather than the biggest penalty pass this side of kingdom com.

[awm]

I don't know that the stopper ask is so rare. For example:

 

Jxx Ax AKxxx xxx

 

Most of us wouldn't overcall 2♦ on this, especially if the diamond spots are bad. But give partner a fairly modest double:

 

Ax QJxx Qxx Axxx

 

Sure you need a little luck, but 3nt is a pretty reasonable spot. I don't think a competitive 3♦ really shows this hand, and you certainly don't want to bid notrump yourself. Of course, if you think it's that important to be able to reveal RHO's first seat 1♠ psych that you need 3♠ natural, fine, but I think having a stopper-ask is useful.

[joshs]

I don't know that the stopper ask is so rare. For example:

 

Jxx Ax AKxxx xxx

 

Most of us wouldn't overcall 2♦ on this, especially if the diamond spots are bad. But give partner a fairly modest double:

 

Ax QJxx Qxx Axxx

 

Sure you need a little luck, but 3nt is a pretty reasonable spot. I don't think a competitive 3♦ really shows this hand, and you certainly don't want to bid notrump yourself. Of course, if you think it's that important to be able to reveal RHO's first seat 1♠ psych that you need 3♠ natural, fine, but I think having a stopper-ask is useful.

Partner's x of 1S was a balancing action, so you are forcing to 3N or higher opposite an 8/9 count.... I think a forward going 3D is enough with that hand.

[jdonn]

I don't know that the stopper ask is so rare. For example:

 

Jxx Ax AKxxx xxx

 

Most of us wouldn't overcall 2♦ on this, especially if the diamond spots are bad. But give partner a fairly modest double:

 

Ax QJxx Qxx Axxx

 

Sure you need a little luck, but 3nt is a pretty reasonable spot. I don't think a competitive 3♦ really shows this hand, and you certainly don't want to bid notrump yourself. Of course, if you think it's that important to be able to reveal RHO's first seat 1♠ psych that you need 3♠ natural, fine, but I think having a stopper-ask is useful.

Is that double really so modest? Partner was balancing at the 1 level. Remove an ace and it's a pretty modest double, but that example as is has plenty more than it might. And even then needed a little luck.

[jdonn]

so are we bidding 3H with: xxx Kx AQxx AKxx?

Yes :rolleyes: wtp?

[joshs]

so are we bidding 3H with: xxx Kx AQxx AKxx?

Yes :rolleyes: wtp?

If partner xed 1S with Ax xxx Kxxx Qxxx does he really know to bid 3N if 3H is bid both on the balanced hand, and the hand with a singleton heart? Even adding the heart Q to the above, bidding 3N would be scary here...

[jdonn]

so are we bidding 3H with: xxx Kx AQxx AKxx?

Yes :rolleyes: wtp?

If partner xed 1S with Ax xxx Kxxx Qxxx does he really know to bid 3N if 3H is bid both on the balanced hand, and the hand with a singleton heart? Even adding the heart Q to the above, bidding 3N would be scary here...

I couldn't figure out what you were talking about, then I realized I inadvertantly earlier agreed with someone who said 3H shows heart shortness and both minors. I didn't mean to agree that it shows shortness as in a singleton, but just meant it is not length (or else double). I still think it shows something in hearts, and in fact the above example seems perfect to me for what 3H should show.

[joshs]

Thats ok, although xxxx x AQJx AKJx is a problem, but you can probably bid 3H and hope to survive. Amyway, these are all rare hand types.

[whereagles]

1♠ - P - P - X

2♥ - ?

 

What are:

 

X - ?

2♠ - ?

3♥ - ?

This is a bit agreement-dependent. Some play double as penalties (psych exposing), others play it as take-out.

 

If X = pen, then 2♠ is probably some 44 minors or something and 3♥ longish hearts.

 

If X = take-out (44 minors), then 2♠ is some 13-14 balanced hand and 3♥ natural invitational.