Deep Finesse vs. Deep Rosenberg

[fred]

What follows is a story of a nice hand from the recent ACBL Nationals in Dallas, but before I get to that here are a couple of other notable memories from that tournament:

 

I always meet dozens of BBO members for the first time at major tournaments. I have no idea who most of these people are, but it is always nice to hear their (mostly positive!) comments about BBO. I occasionally meet someone who I have previously met online and, strangely, they are almost always completely different from what I had been expecting.

 

Near the end of the Dallas tournament, a young lady who I had never seen before came up to me and told me she was a BBO member. I immediately guessed that she was Elianna, a regular poster to forums. I knew this, not only because I knew that Elianna was a young lady who was going to be in Dallas, but because the same enthusiasm and good nature that is so evident in her posts was also immediately evident when we met in person.

 

Nice to meet you Elianna :)

 

On Friday and Saturday, the last 2 rounds of the Vanderbilt were broadcast as BBO vugraph. I was playing (unfortunately not in the Vanderbilt!) on those days, but after the evening session I went to the bar (as usual!) and was happy to see that there were several "stations" where people had set up laptops and were watching BBO vugraph! People were crowded around each of these computers. There were at least 100 people in the bar watching vugraph, most of them glued to the various monitors during the dramatic endings of these matches. Adam Wildavsky was providing commentary to the BBO audience through one of these computers while several other leading American players were (verbally) helping him with the analysis. Several of the world's top stars (including Tor Helness, Alfredo Versace, and Bob Hamman) were watching from a different station.

 

I thought all of this was pretty cool :)

 

Now for the hand...

 

This hand occurred during the first session of one of the big pairs events. During the first round of the 2nd session, Michael Rosenberg played at my table and told me "Deep Finesse was finally wrong!".

 

I have heard this before from other people. Generally I ignore such comments as I believe that DF (and GIB) are 100% accurate in their double dummy analysis. However, Michael Rosenberg is about the closest thing we have to a human version of DF. I looked at the hand for about a minute (it did not appear to be a very complicated hand) and it really seemed that Michael was right!

 

A few hours later I had a chance to think about the hand some more and I found that play sequence that Michael had missed and DF had seen. The hand (but not the answer) follows.

 

Of course any of you can use DF or GIB to figure out the answer, but I suggest you try to work it out yourself first. If you do use a program to find the answer then please do not post what you have learned!

 

[hv=n=skxhkxxxxdkxc76xx&w=sxxxxhjxdaj10xck98&e=sa10xh10xxdqxxcqjxx&s=sqj98haqxdxxxxca10]399|300|[/hv]

 

DF says that South can make only 2NT, but at first glance Michael and I both thought that 3NT was a make.

 

Can you see how the defense can hold declarer to 8 tricks?

 

This hand also made me think: Is A10 opposite 76xx the weakest 4-2 fit in which declarer can win 2 tricks on power (if KQJxx are onside and 98 are offside)?

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[glen]

That is the neatest problem I've seen in a long time and very fun to solve without using DF etc. (resist the temptation - keep working on it, as it is worthwhile) - involves lots of "this must be this, so that must be that" thinking. Thanks for posting this (and now I'll be late to work).

[kenrexford]

Club lead (small), won by Ace. When declarer attacks spades, RHO ducks twice. If Declarer tries to set up the third spade, he squeezes dummy into either establishing diamonds or clubs. So, Declarer tries small diamond toward dummy. This is hopped upon, two clubs cashed by LHO, and the spade remains as an entry to RHO for the fourth club.

 

I think this works.

[MickyB]

More to it than that I think, Ken. If declarer does play a 3rd round of spades throwing a heart from dummy, he might still take 4 hearts, 3 spades, 1 diamond and 1 club.

 

Edit:

 

My answer -

 

 

After the third spade is taken, East plays a club to West's king, and West plays his 4th spade. Now declarer has no source for a 9th trick unless he discards a club from dummy, but then the defence could cash two more clubs when they get in with the AD.

 

Edited April 10, 2006 by MickyB

[glen]

Yes more to it - not posting a spoiler - edit: note the next post right below this does contain the spoiler

[kenrexford]

That is no problem. On third spade, RHO sends a club to LHO. LHO maintains one and plays the fourth spade. This again squeezes dummy, while maintaining transportation.

 

The same basic approach works if Declarer first runs his hearts.

 

The key to this is simple squeeze prep. The defense needs to take five tricks. Thus, the defense rectifies the count by ducking two spades. As transportation (the other aspect of squeezes) is the problem, but as rectiftying count solves this through a squeeze, voila!

 

I am not sure what squeeze this is, but I think it might be a guard squeeze?

[jdonn]

This hand also made me think: Is A10 opposite 76xx the weakest 4-2 fit in which declarer can win 2 tricks on power (if KQJxx are onside and 98 are offside)?

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

How about AT7x opposite xx with KQJxx onside and 98 offside, or KQJx and 98x? It is not only weaker* than the holding you post since it lacks the six, but makes in more case.

 

*This combination 'seems' stronger at a glance since the honors are in the long hand, but I think is technically weaker in the way you meant it.

 

 

I also had the same reaction to the little BBO vugraph stations throughout the tournament, it was really great, and the highlight of an otherwise terrible tournament for me. I was watching the semifinal match between Hollman and Chang in the bar with Billy and Ron who were on the Hollman team but sitting out, and Disa who is the wife of one of the players who was in. Later a bunch of us went up to someone's hotel room with two laptops to watch both tables of the match at the same time, which was a lot of fun. In the bar we had been hoping they could even hook a laptop up to one of the big screen TVs! Unforunately it didn't happen (that I saw), but I bet it does at some time in the future.

[winkle]

How about AT7x opposite xx with KQJxx onside and 98 offside, or KQJx and 98x? It is not only weaker* than the holding you post since it lacks the six, but makes in more case.

 

*This combination 'seems' stronger at a glance since the honors are in the long hand, but I think is technically weaker in the way you meant it.

It seems Fred must have some other definition. If the honors are in the long hand all you need is QT54 opposite 32 with AKJ on side.

[Elianna]

Near the end of the Dallas tournament, a young lady who I had never seen before came up to me and told me she was a BBO member. I immediately guessed that she was Elianna, a regular poster to forums. I knew this, not only because I knew that Elianna was a young lady who was going to be in Dallas, but because the same enthusiasm and good nature that is so evident in her posts was also immediately evident when we met in person.

 

Nice to meet you Elianna :(

It was nice to meet you, too, Fred. :)

 

I only found out later that you had just won the IMP pairs right before I accosted you, and I was very embarrassed that I didn't say congratulations!

 

So anyway, congratulations!

[Salokin]

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ Kx ♥ Kxxxx ♦ Kx ♣ 76xx ♠ xxxx ♥ Jx ♦ AJ10x ♣ K98 ♠ A10x ♥ 10xx ♦ Qxx ♣ QJxx ♠ QJ98 ♥ AQx ♦ xxxx ♣ A10

Can you see how the defense can hold declarer to 8 tricks?

 

Hi,

lets try:

 

1- C8 Cx CQ CA

2- Sx Sx SK Sx

3- Sx S10 SJ Sx

4- SQ Sx Hx SA

5- Cx C10 CK Cx

6- Sx ? on his 3. S winner dummy is squeezed

 

but what if Dec ducks 1. trick?

with one trick in bag we could switch to D

 

I hope i didn't miss anything

 

Salokin

[rbforster]

Nice problem. Many folks at my bridge club where I brought it were also in the "declare 3NT" camp initially.

 

In the variation of the declarer play I followed, the KC lead is won, two spades played and ducked by the defenese, and then hearts are run.

 

[hv=n=shdkxc76x&w=shdajtc98&e=sahdxcqjx&s=sq9hdxxct]399|300|[/hv]

 

At the 5 card ending you get a clear opportunity to squeeze the dummy by East. Trapped on dummy after the run of the hearts, declarer exits a club. East wins and cashs the AS to set up his long club or partner's diamond suit.

 

Note that it's important for the defense in this declarer's line for East to unblock the Q♦. Otherwise in the above position, dummy exits a low diamond and West cannot afford to overtake. Without communication, the clubs eventually provide an extra trick with East stuck on lead.

[andych]

Not trying to solve the problem. Something I like to hear .... sorry for branching away..... ;) :lol:

 

Rosenbery is widely considered "the closest thing to a human DF". Does it has any relevance to label him "#1 individual player"?

 

Acutally I hear some other world stars have their own image/label/charisteristic too...

Helgemo - his Bridge is so special, talented

Hamman & Meckstroth - practical

Rodwell - mad scientist

Zia - tricky, dont believe his cards

Helness & Forrestor - the only 2 players where Helgemo stamp "Intelligient" in his book (which one?)

Rosenberg - technical

 

What is the meaning of Helgemo special, similar with Zia tricky?

What is the meaning of Hamman/Meckstroth practical, similar with Rosenberg technical?

 

I understand there is no clear answer. But guess it would be fun just to see your views.... :lol: :lol:

[jdeegan]

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ Kx ♥ Kxxxx ♦ Kx ♣ 76xx ♠ xxxx ♥ Jx ♦ AJ10x ♣ K98 ♠ A10x ♥ 10xx ♦ Qxx ♣ QJxx ♠ QJ98 ♥ AQx ♦ xxxx ♣ A10

 

 

:)

Lead the eight of clubs to the ♣J and ♣A. Duck two spades. Win the third spade which squeezes dummy out of a long heart. Play a small club to pard's ♣K. He then squeezes dummy again with the fourth round of spades before declarer has set up the ♦K.

 

If he abandons his club stop, declarer can win three spades, four hearts and one club, but no more. If he ditches another heart, he can win three hearts, three spades, one club and one diamond only. Throwing a small diamond keeps the clubs blocked, but allows the diamonds to run.

 

If declarer leads a diamond at trick four, you beat him off the top since pard retains the spade ace as an entry to the long club.